Grain for the hot horse

[Gamblinonlife]

I have a pretty “spicey” OTTB. He gets plenty of hay and a hay stretcher, but I feed him Smartpak supplements as well and he needs a little grain to sweeten the deal so he eats his supplements (as they say, a spoonful of sugar…). I have been feeding him Purina Senior, just like two cups a day so he eats his meds. I have been told that it is quite high in sugar/ starch and may be contributing to his excess energy. He is turned out all the time and exercised 3-5 days a week (soon to be more as he is moving closer to me, yay! However, he will lose some of the turnout time). I don’t have a super hard time keeping weight on him.

I tired switching to Triple Crown Low Starch and he does not really like the taste. He ate it for approximately a month and then started walking away and refused any and all meals with it.

I have been concerned about trying the TC senior as I think he may have the same problem with the taste.

The LMF low starch/ gentle balance has been recommended to me but it is not available anywhere near me.

Does anybody else have any suggestions? I have been considering Purina Strategy or Ultium but have heard mixed things about them.

[Simkie]

Most horses find TC Senior VERY palatable. Give it a try before writing it off.

But have you ruled out ulcers? All too common in horses coming off the track, and can make them reactive and not interested in feed.

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[Gamblinonlife]

Is there much of a difference with the TC senior and the low starch? From what I’ve seen/ heard they’re pretty similar.

He is many years off the track and our vet thinks it is very unlikely. He hasn’t been scoped but like I said, our vet did not seem to think it was likely.

[Simkie]

@Gamblinonlife

Is there much of a difference with the TC senior and the low starch? From what I’ve seen/ heard they’re pretty similar.

He is many years off the track and our vet thinks it is very unlikely. He hasn’t been scoped but like I said, our vet did not seem to think it was likely.

They’re quite different. Low starch is a dry pellet, senior is a moist textured feed.

Given how inexpensive and easy a course of nexium is, it might be worthwhile to just treat for ulcers and see if the horse changes. A reactive, inappetant horse is pretty often ulcery.

[Gamblinonlife]

He has an appetite, he just doesn’t like TC low starch. As soon as I switched back to Purina Senior he was happy to eat his meds. He is “spicey” as in he has an endless amount of energy and likes to go, but he is not necessarily reactive. I have never actually heard about nexium as a treatment for ulcers. I was under the impression that omeprazole is the only effective method for ulcer treatment. Is this untrue?

[Simkie]

@Gamblinonlife

He has an appetite, he just doesn’t like TC low starch. As soon as I switched back to Purina Senior he was happy to eat his meds. He is “spicey” as in he has an endless amount of energy and likes to go, but he is not necessarily reactive. I have never actually heard about nexium as a treatment for ulcers. I was under the impression that omeprazole is the only effective method for ulcer treatment. Is this untrue?

It is. There’s a long thread here about using esomeprazole to treat equine ulcers and a whole bunch of us have had success. There is also some literature supporting its use, which is linked there. It’s rarely off far past the first page. I’m about to head out the door, will snag a link later today if you’re not able to turn it up.

What meds is he on, and for what? Or do meds = supplements here?

[Gamblinonlife]

I just found the thread!! Very interesting. Thanks!! I think I will have to try that. I just mean supplements. He gets Cosequin, Farriers Formula, and SmartCalm Ultra.

[mmeqcenter]

I really, really doubt that two cups of any grain is making the horse hot.

Does “turned out all the time” mean out 24/7? If not, how many hours per day is he in turnout?
I don’t know why on earth your vet would think ulcers are unlikely. A horse in regular work, that alone is enough of a stressor to cause them in some horses, let alone weather changes, sugar in their diet, a multitude of factors. Even my retired 21 year old gelding who does nothing with his life other than eat and graze 24/7 had a minor bout a few months ago. I am a huge fan of Ranitidine to treat ulcers, it is extremely affordable and effective. Basically any slight behavior change/issue in either of mine causes me to give them a week or more of Ranitidine, and so far it’s always set them right.

[Gamblinonlife]

Yes he is turned out 24/7 but his his living situation is going to change soon. He has always been a pretty hot horse, hasn’t really been any change in attitude or behavior. Just looking for alternatives to Purina senior for my own peace of mind, I guess. He does not show any symptoms that are common with ulcers, so the vet did not think spending hundreds of dollars to scope him or treat with Ulcerguard would be worth it. I am thinking I might try giving him some Nexium or Ranitidine and just see if it makes a difference for him. Truly, I think he is a hot horse and that’sjust who he is, which is totally fine I think he is a blast, I just don’t want to be exacerbating the hotness by feeding him something high in sugar.

[candyappy]

@Gamblinonlife

He has an appetite, he just doesn’t like TC low starch. As soon as I switched back to Purina Senior he was happy to eat his meds. He is “spicey” as in he has an endless amount of energy and likes to go, but he is not necessarily reactive. I have never actually heard about nexium as a treatment for ulcers. I was under the impression that omeprazole is the only effective method for ulcer treatment. Is this untrue?

Since when is having abundant energy a sign of ulcers? Does he have any symptoms of ulcers otherwise?

2 cups of the senior feed he likes is really such a small amount, I wouldn’t worry about it if it was my horse.

[tabula_rashah]

I agree with @mmeqcenter that 2 cups of Senior is probably not any cause of him being hot. Is the turnout a full field with buddies or is it a small dry lot? How much work is he getting those 3-5 times a week? And, yes, he sounds like a very likely candidate for ulcers

[jetsmom]

Try taking him off of supplements, and feeding the senior. I have a tb that if he gets anything with flax or MSM he acts like he is seeing ghosts. Won’t stand still, higher than a kite. Literally looks like he is vibrating with energy in the cross ties. I had even tried him on Glaanzen 3 because it was supposed to give them a good calm attitude and he was nuts on it. Took him off and about3 or 4 days later, was back to normal.
And several people have reported that their horse got high as a kite on MSM.

[Gamblinonlife]

It is a field with buddies. It depends on my schedule. He either gets a lunge, round pen work or ridden. Generally 30-60 mins. We jump once a week, often less. We horse showed a couple times a few years ago but haven’t for quite awhile. As I said, I will try a round of Nexium and see what happens.

As far as removing MSM… that is very interesting. I could try that. What would you suggest for joint support in that case?

[jetsmom]

@Gamblinonlife

It is a field with buddies. It depends on my schedule. He either gets a lunge, round pen work or ridden. Generally 30-60 mins. We jump once a week, often less. We horse showed a couple times a few years ago but haven’t for quite awhile. As I said, I will try a round of Nexium and see what happens.

As far as removing MSM… that is very interesting. I could try that. What would you suggest for joint support in that case?

Adequan for a mo. 8 injections (total) 4 days apart for a month.

There are quite a few threads/posts about msm and hotness. Do a search of forum.

[Gamblinonlife]

@jetsmom

Adequan for a mo. 8 injections (total) 4 days apart for a month.

There are quite a few threads/posts about msm and hotness. Do a search of forum.

I see! Thank you for pointing me in that direction. Never occurred to me before! I appreciate it.

[jonem004]

@Simkie

They’re quite different. Low starch is a dry pellet, senior is a moist textured feed.

Given how inexpensive and easy a course of nexium is, it might be worthwhile to just treat for ulcers and see if the horse changes. A reactive, inappetant horse is pretty often ulcery.

Agree with all of this. Interesting about the MSM as well.
I feed Triple Crown Lite and my 2yo was really uninterested in it until I treated his ulcers. He would always clean up his hay.

I used Nexium like that thread discusses and I have been rewarded with a much more compliant and less mouthy baby. I’m so glad I figured that out before starting him next year. I really thought he was going to be a pistol! It definitely put ulcers on my radar, so let me put them on yours.

[dbtoo]

I also have a youngish OTTB and yes several cups of Senior or even Healthy Egde gives him excess energy which he does not use for good. I have him on Safe Choice Maintenance now and it really does make a difference.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

Purina Equine Senior has 19% NSC (starch+sugar). The TC Low Starch is 13.5%.

I’d try either ProElite Senior (13.85% NSC) or TC Senior (11.70% NSC). Both of these senior feeds are much lower NSC than the Purina and should be more palatable than the low starch feed.

Or you could just use a diet balancer - both TC and ProElite have good balancers. The TC 30 balancer is much lower at 9.8% and PE Grass Balancer is 12%. Feeding a good quality balancer at the recommending feeding rate, you might be able to do away with some supplements. Just look at their analysis on their web sites.

I use the ProElite Grass Advantage Diet Balancer myself. But I don’t have any picky eaters - they all gobble it down like it was sweet feed. lol

[Postandrails]

I would also be more wary of the MSM or other supplements than 2 cups of senior feed.

[beau159]

I switched all my horses to Purina Outlast and Purina Ultium Gastric Care (great for mixing in a powder supplement … they also be T.H.E. ) this year, and I’ve loved it. (they also get a little bit of alfalfa pellets)

For my main performance horse, he would daily get about 3/4 pound alfalfa pellets, 2 cups Outlast (a real measuring cup), and about 1/2 pount to 1 pound of the Ultium Gastric Care (depending on if it was race day or not). He kicked up his barrel racing in a big way this year - probably not due to the supplements but I like to think they helped his tummy feel good.