Here’s a video of the event. I had to Google it (I can understand if people don’t want to watch).
It is pretty crazy how at times it’s hard to see which horses still have jockeys and which don’t!
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That’s just nuts.
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It’s just so crowded…I don’t see how you can NOT have a wreck.
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There were a couple of fences where the loose horses definitely resulted in jockeys being unseated!
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I remember when Quality Road was scratched out of the Breeder’s Cup Classic at the gate. He wasn’t having any of it, was freaking out, and was refusing to load. They did try to get him to load, but he eventually busted out of the gate and was scratched. As the gate stewart though, how do you decide when before that point to scratch? Zenyatta refused to load in that same race, before finally loading in, and she went on to win the Classic. I don’t think decisions like those are easy calls.
Another example, also from flat racing. Does anyone remember how Shackleford used to look in post parades? Extremely amped up and hard to manage - but every time he warmed up that way, he won. The races where he was calm in the post-parade, he lost.
I don’t like that there are deaths in racing, nor that there’s practically a guaranteed death and the Grand National, or even in upper level eventing. I do think people are working though at coming up with solutions - sometimes those solutions work, sometimes they don’t.
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Question: In the last 5 years, have there been at least one horse death in every Grand National? If not, in how many has a horse died?
In the last 5 years, in how many Grand Nationals have multiple horses died?
(I don’t know where to find this info, if it is consolidated somewhere.)
If horses are dying in every race, IMO it is time for this race to stop. The “reasons” why it “can’t stop” and why no one can make a principaled decision not to run a horse sound so much like the rationalizations to continue soring TWH’s, and to allow shows/classes to continue where it is obvious that horses have been sored. In spite of inspections and so forth.
There aren’t any reasons to continue abuse and carnage.
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The fences were modified to the current standard after 2012 (Sychronised, that year’s Cheltenham Gold Cup winner, was euthanized after breaking a hind leg in a riderless fall), and there were no horse deaths from 2013-2018. In 2019, there was 1 death; Up For Review broke his neck.
That’s a lot of falls, unseated jockeys, crowding, and no way in hell would I ever want to ride in that. How do the deaths and injuries compare to flat racing?
With Quality Road: that was ultimately the decision of the officials, not soley the jockey/trainer/owner. Once it is past the scratch time on the day of the race, you can’t just scratch your horse. If something is seriously wrong, you can call the officials over and they will hear your reason for needing to scratch, examine the horse, and will make a decision whether or not to allow it. Or if something goes awry, like in the case of Quality Road, they may ask for input from the rider or trainer before making their decision.
But you can’t just say, “my horse is amped up, I’m not running” without penalty. Or at least that’s how it works in North America and I can only assume the same standard applies across the pond.
These horses aren’t pets or hobby horses. They are people’s entire livelihoods. That doesn’t mean their connections don’t care deeply about their welfare, but they do have to go out and do their job.
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Yes, the decision came down to the vet at the gate and the stewarts. That was the point I was trying to make (and wasn’t clear about).
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The reason a horse’s connections can’t scratch at the very last second, barring a reason like it broke down in the post parade, is because it’s considered unfair to the betting public to do so.
I’m sure I’m not the only one whose knee jerk response is “screw the betting public”, but without them there is no racing.
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Oh, I think you were clear! I just wanted to re-emphasize because of the direction of the conversation! I knew you knew what you were talking about, but there is conversation suggesting other people do not understand the rules. 
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I don’t know where to find the statistics for UK racing stuff, but here’s an article about California flat racing statistics from 2021. I’m not 100% sure if this includes QH and harness races.
There used to be a book that would be published each year by the CHRB which would include various statistics about racing injuries and deaths. Not sure if they still do that.
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… and I don’t think horse people in general realize how much racing benefits ALL of us.
You think we have a problem getting funding for equine research now? Just wait until there is no racing. You think we are in an equine veterinary crisis now? Just wait until we lose tens of thousands of racehorses keeping vets in work. You think we have problems with slaughter now? Just wait until we lose the sport with easily traceable horses and slaughter goes totally underground.
We need to work together, not against one another.
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Yup! All of the trainers and owners that I used follow (I stopped following racing after about 2015, I just didn’t have the time) cared deeply about their horses. For many, they love the horses and they love the sport. Racing pays the bills.
Yes, its a business, but I’ve seen trainers skip the Preakness after winning the Derby or skip other major races out of concern for the longevity of their horse. I followed Animal Kingdom’s entire racing career and loved how carefully he was managed and brought back to racing after his injuries.
I remember some of the backlash Sheriffs would get from facing fans (perhaps those who don’t spend time around horses themselves), for taking things slow and not pushing Zenyatta’s offspring. He ignored all of that and did what he thought was best for those youngsters, and when they didn’t perform well, they were retired to good homes.
There are plenty more examples I can think of.
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Yup.
There’s a new equine herpesvirus vaccine in the works right now - and guess where the major funding is coming from - the thoroughbred racing industry. The professor of the lab developing it gave a talk to our university department a couple years ago.
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The betting public will survive one unauthorized late scratch by physical removal. If that is what it comes down to.
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All of the reasons “without this or that, if someone does this or that, the whole system will collapse !!!” is an over-inflation of the argument.
Systems survive one-off’s.
Racing will survive with or without the Grand National
The emotional cliff’s edge warnings of dire consequences such as no more racing! massive unemployment! no more funding! disease runs rampant! … oh please.
Realize that “either-or” arguments like that just play into the hands of the opposition. To the general public such arguments sound as if we would be better off to just live without all of it, if carnage is the only way to support it.
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You can take the same argument if you want, and flip it to breeding. Why breed horses? Its not for the best interest of the mare - its for the interest of the owner. Perhaps that interest is for a personal mount or an offspring to sell.
Breeding is dangerous. Giving birth is dangerous. How many mares die each year while giving birth. And yet, I don’t see the people making these critical arguments about racing (without constructive alternatives) over in the Foal Watch 2023 thread going after breeders.
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You don’t get it. It’s not just an unathorized late scratch. It’s hundreds of thousands of dollars wagered on that horse, if not millions. Wagering on the Grand National exceeds $100 million each year.
Wagering can’t exist if you don’t follow the rules consistently. The rules do the best they can given the nature of the sport. Horses do get scratched at the last minute. But it’s not something to take lightly given the high stakes.
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