I could be wrong, but I’m under the impression that TBs from Ireland and the UK have less soundness issues and more bone. Are breeders looking for different attributes than US breeders?
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I also believe, steeplechasers are generally older too.
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Steeplechasers run at much slower speeds than flat racers on dirt and for much longer distances (The shortest distance is a 1 1/2, which is the longest distance for a flat race on dirt. Other races can be from 2 - 4 miles) Speed for steeplechasers is usually around a two minute lick, or a :15 furlong, but sustained for much longer. Flat racing on dirt speed averages around a :12 furlong; with occasional :10 and :11 second fractions.
In point to point and National Steeplechase races in the US, three year olds race on the flat on turf; 4 year olds run over hurdles, and timber horses are anywhere from 5 - mid teens.
So it really is comparing apples to oranges.
Steeplechasers run later, longer, slower and have longer careers. They can also have spectacular wrecks over fences. They are not better or worse than flat horses; they are a different type of athlete in a different sport, so common injuries and soundness problems are different as well.
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Not really. Thoroughbreds in the UK and Ireland are more genetically similar than different to those in North America in the 21st century.
Nearly everything about European racing is different than American racing. Do you want me to go into it? Because it’s going to be a lengthy post. 
The differences in the sport and husbandry on the two continents are the chief reasons for the common perception that European thoroughbreds are unlike ours.
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@moonlitoaksranch There are many differences between racing the TB in the USA and Ireland/UK. The biggest similarity is that all breeders are trying to produce animals that can win races.
The USA permits medications that can hide unsoundness or medical issues such as bleeding. No such medications are permitted in other major racing jurisdictions. If a horse can not sustain training, such as being a bleeder, it leaves racing and goes on to another job (or is exported to the US to run on Lasix). “Retired sound” is an important selling point for a stallion. Mares are not habitually raced so much, as they have value in the paddocks beyond the racecourse, but sensible breeders look for fillies and mares that have proved some racing ability. The Germans are the most rigorous about no meds for any breeding stallion and British and Irish breeders and owners in recent years have looked to German blood for some additional hardiness.
The summer flat racing is a different game from winter jumping and the thing in common is TB race horses. Years past, National Hunt (NH) horses were a noticably different type, bigger structure, good bone, left to grow on for a few years as “stores”, but theses days many flat racers move on into jump racing as they get older and do very well. I think that says a lot about the improved horse care, vets, diet, body work that permits this transition. Many horses are still specifically bred for NH but the NH stallions tend to be well bred flat horses that have a good record in long distance flat races such as the Ascot Gold Cup or were placed in The Derby. Very few stallions (any? can’t think of any?) take part in NH racing.
Our training methods are totally different. Training stables are scattered all around the countryside and horses have space, turn out, variety in training grounds and surfaces. Big generalisation, but the yards tend to have a relaxed atmosphere, where horses are given time to develop. They travel to a race course, each of which is unique in layout, running right or left handed, with ups and downs. Also the majority of racing is on turf so ground is extremely variable, with extremes from “deep” to “fast”. That means some horses do better in some circumstances than others - “horses for courses” - and a big part of a Trainers job is finding out what conditions best suit a horse. Some horses win on a particular racecourse because they apparently like it. Some always win running one way but not the other. Some need fast ground, some like “some cut” so they won’t be run over the summer months Variety tests the horses physical and mental constitution and horses that can not sustain training move on to another job. We do not run on dirt, which to me seems to be an unforgiving surface. The horses are not training and running on the same surface. It has been identified, in other disciplines, that working on a variety of surfaces is good for overall soundness.
Because our racecourses are each unique and have their small challenges, racing riding is tactical. Unless it is a sprint over the minimum distance, it is unusual for a horse to run flat out from the gate. I remember a top American filly break like a rocket in a good race at York, leaving everyone else standing, but by five furlongs she was cooked on the turf and the rest of the pack sauntered past her towards the winning post. In jump racing, they don’t even use starting gates because the minimum distance is two miles and the racing speed is so much slower overall. The tape is a slightly half-hearted effort to get everyone in the same direction at the same time before the Starter drops the flag to go.
Racing staff are considered to be important in looking after and training the horses. They are valued. There are strict rules about wages and conditions, monitored by the racing authority. There are staff training courses and national awards. The names of the lads and lasses are printed in the Race Card (program) together with Jockey, Trainer, Owners. Most Trainers acknowledge that good staff is key to racing success.
All horses, after their second ever race, are given a rating by the professional handicappers working for the racing authority. This is then updated after each race. The pattern of racing is built so that low rated horses can run against other low rated horses and provide a competitive race. Some horses “beat the handicapper” and steadily improve and go up in the weights and the quality and value of the races they run in. Some go the other way. Another skill of a Trainer is finding a race for the horse at the right weight/handicap. The betting public love to try to beat the handicapper too, finding “value” in a horse going up or down. There is a race for horses of every level so there is less pressure, perhaps, to push them to win at all costs. The prize money in the UK such rubbish that it doesn’t cover most training fees. Irish racing is in much better heart.
One reason why The Derby (the one at Epsom) is a stallion making race is because it is such a demanding course. TV flattens everything. I had not fully appreciated how difficult the race is until I walked round the Epsom course. The famous Tattenham Corner is a right angle bend, after a straight with undulating terrain, before a straight down a surprisingly steep slope, one I personally would canter down with careful balance, and the racehorses are beginning to quicken at this point of the race, galloping faster as the finishing post is finally coming into sight. It takes an exceptionally tough, balanced, sound, brave horse to win The Derby.
One Trainer who produce interesting videos on Facebook is Phil Kirby in Yorkshire. He even takes his horses cross country schooling at an eventing centre.
Another Trainer with unique facilities is Christian Williams. He exercises his horses through the local sand dunes. Worth having a look
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I’m in no way trying to defend American racing, because there is a tremendous need for improvement in both horse and human welfare-- but objectively it appears that at least one horse dies in the Grand National almost every year, which I don’t think should be glossed over either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equine_fatalities_in_the_Grand_National
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I think it’s important to remember the Grand National is not representative of all racing in the UK. It’s not even representative of all steeplechases.
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I thought we were talking about the Grand National. Not the Maryland Hunt Cup.
But might be better to compare falls and fatalities in those two.
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We have so many different conversations going on in this thread and so many different levels of understanding.
The Grand National is not like other steeplechases or National hunt races. It is its own beast.
American racing has very little common with UK racing period.
But it’s all getting lumped together in this conversation.
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Yes. It just got to me when Highflyer1 referred to the National as a timber race. At least that’s what I inferred from the above-quoted post.
That is the point. The Grand National is an exception from other racing, and it is curious that it is allowed to continue with the losses that pile up, even after the reform that has already been done. Are other hazardous venues tolerating that same degree of loss? That’s the comparison.
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There were no deaths in the Grand National for 7 years after the fences were modified for safety reasons in 2012. The Trainer blames the protesters for the death of Hill Sixteen because he got too wound up waiting for the delayed start. The horse had run the same course twice before, in races used as prep for the National, and had a solid jumping record.
The Grand National is totally unlike any other steeplechase.
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Thank you for that description!
Maybe you don’t consider Canada a major racing jurisdiction, but lasix is allowed here in TB and STB racing, possibly also QH, but I’m not familiar with the QH racing rules.
Despite the awesome Northern Dancer, no, personally I don’t see Canada as a major TB racing jurisdiction, sadly.
Canada is basically an extension of the USA in terms of racing. All North American statistics frequently get lumped together.
Canada foals about half the number of thoroughbreds as Great Britain each year. But, that number isn’t totally accurate because there is a fair amount of horse movement between Canada, Kentucky, and Florida.
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The Maryland Hunt Cup is a timber race (post-and-rail). Ditto a few others, but it’s the most famous in the U.S.
The Grand National is a hurdle race (brush fences). It’s a different type of fence and jumping style. Most hurdle races aren’t that big and the horses just take them in stride. Unlike a timber fence, they can be very forgiving:
But because of the size, the Grand National fences clearly arent.
Like others have said (who are far more knowledgeable than myself), you can’t really just talk about the “risks of racing” in general. Surface, type of fences, height, the degree to which the races are policed for drugging, what drugs are legal in what country, breeding, how horses are kept…there are so many moving parts, which is why it’s hard sometimes to compare risk factors, although it’s pretty clear that some events and some tracks have far worse records than others.
Interesting side fact–jump jockeys can weigh more than flat jockeys, which, at least, is healthier for the rider!
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The minimum weight in flat racing is 8 stone = 112 lbs = approx 51 kg.
The minimum weight in jump racing is 10 stone = 140 lbs = approx 70 kg.
The horses are older in National Hunt. Generally the maximum weight a horse carries is 11stone 12 lbs but sometimes the handicapper goes higher. Another variable in the Grand National: some Trainers withdraw a horse if they think the allocated weight is too high.
I knew one person who wished to become a Jockey but he couldn’t make the necessary minimum weight for flat racing but he also couldn’t make the minimum weight to jump. Stuck between the two, he became a professional carriage driver.
ETA There is increasing difficulty in finding such light riders in flat racing. Modern humans are bigger than in the past. There has been discussion about raising the minimum weight.
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I really hope they do. Eating disorders are so common among jockeys, and piloting a racehorse is dangerous enough without the jockey being dehydrated from sweating and purging.
Also, jockeys have longer careers now. In the early days, many of the riders were practically kids. Now, grown men are fighting to keep the weight of a teenager (even if they are short already).
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If they do that, they need to let the horses age a bit more before starting them.
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