[QUOTE=stolensilver;7397606]
Some dynasties:
Sixtus/Axis
Come Back III[/QUOTE]
Just to add to the Sixtus… Buddenbrock/ King Arthur
Sorry, but had to add as I am a fan of his and he is available in the US:)
I guess you can tell that I am a fan 
I dont know if you would call that a dynasty But Lancet and Uzzo who was Worldchampion of the 5 years as well as participating in the Olympics in London http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2006/08/08/surprise-conquest-uzzo-and-patrick-van-der-meer-verden
What I find interesting is how many of the dynasties are founded by a jumping stallion. All of these have either jumped 1m40+ themselves or sired international jumpers:
Akzent II
Cocktail
Kostolany
Ulft
Roemer
Quattro B
Sixtus
Flemmingh
Come Back
The last two are Holstein bred so jumping bred for generations. It makes me even more sure that the long legged “modern” dressage stallions that are so popular at gradings and young horse classes will prove to be a breeding dead end.
Stolensilver - I think it has more to do with the fact that stallions had to be able to do both - dressage and jumping - and were judged on it. And this is generally where the arguments about “specialization” start…
Welcome S who stood at my farm for a few years before his death was another Grand Prix stallion. At one time, he was the highest ranked GP horse in the world. His offspring are looking like FEI prospects with powerful hindquarters and enough knee to eventually do Pa-Pi
[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7398402]
Just to add to the Sixtus… Buddenbrock/ King Arthur
Sorry, but had to add as I am a fan of his and he is available in the US:)[/QUOTE]
Sixtus/Buddenbrock/Connery/Imperio 
Lagoheidor, done it, produced it
[QUOTE=Manni01;7397355]
stoicfish, I really agree, but I dont think this is really important for anyone… Good marketing is everything…
But on the other hand a GP horse is always made… You dont get one just by breeding it…
And what I think to be interesting… In marelines, approved stallions and SPS mares are more important for selling than horses who are actually sucessful in GP…[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
"GP horses happen as a result of great horse/rider combinations and a lot of consistent hard work. Probably one of the most difficult disciplines you could choose actually. Most of the current sales stars with all the potential in the world will not achieve that status, due to the fact that the horses are so bloody expensive a very few can afford them and the cost of making one…well… let’s not even go there. My cute two year old filly has a Grand Prix daddy who was shortlisted for the CET (Paginini who is by Havidoff out of a Statuar mare). My filly’s dam is by Inspekteur out of a Variant mare. I know for sure that Variant and Paginini have campaigned at Grand Prix. Correct me if I am wrong but Variant is also dam sire of the current reigning gold medalist Vallegro, who in my opinion is Grand Prix and then some. At any rate, putting aside all our “who’s who and what’s what, bottom line is if filly remains in my care long term and some do due to location, and yes marketing, she will probably be a fancy trail horse or a hunter at best because those are disciplines I personally can handle at 60 plus years. Not wanting to sound negative but I too love a nice horse, but realize that it takes a small army to make it happen and these old bones aren’t quite going to get there regardless if the Grand Prix credentials go back to the begiinning of time.”
PS… love my fillies, and if you want one, yes you will need at least another mortgage to afford her, because right now, she is in her prime and could be developed in the right hands. Her value will decrease as I become involved in her training but she will always be well photographed, well loved, and have a good life…that I can do up to Grand Prix level. lol
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7397571]
When I think of hot, I think of the Dutch horses and many of them are notorious. They are as popular as ever.
For those that have worked with many Welty offspring - are they hot or just sensitive and intelligent?
Some are noble in appearance and I thought that was more the reason they are not as popular. But they are still in many of the top horses even if people are not swarming to them.[/QUOTE]
Well, I watered down what I had heard from a State Stud veterinarian about Weltmeyer because I had asked about breeding my mare to him. He told me to look at the Rubinstein lines instead. I don’t really know if “hotness” is the correct word, perhaps “professional’s horse” is better suited.
[QUOTE=b;7395883]
KWPN stallion Paganini Crown by Havidoff. He is ridden by Canadian Cheryl Meisner.[/QUOTE]
I have a filly by him. She is lovely.
[QUOTE=b;7395883]
KWPN stallion Paganini Crown by Havidoff. He is ridden by Canadian Cheryl Meisner.[/QUOTE]
I have a filly by Paginini. Her grand-dam is by Variant who also competed to Grand Prix. Variant also is dam sire of the current gold medalist Vallegro, who is a fantastic GP horse.
I have to agree also with the other poster who said Grand Prix horses are made, so while credentials and bloodlines carry weight for sales, on a day to day basis, it depends far more on who is in the saddle, and with the volume of horses being bred with equally outstanding credentials, it weighs more on consistent skilled training… knowledge that not all of us have.
[QUOTE=Megaladon;7399334]
Well, I watered down what I had heard from a State Stud veterinarian about Weltmeyer because I had asked about breeding my mare to him. He told me to look at the Rubinstein lines instead. I don’t really know if “hotness” is the correct word, perhaps “professional’s horse” is better suited.[/QUOTE]
FWIW, my first Weltmeyer homebred filly (2001 vintage) was just sold to a paralympics rider. She had previously been ridden by a junior. Her full sister is an ammy ride. They are both sensitive in a good way, but not difficult or what I would call hot.
I am just trying to put together a reference list. Sorry if some of you find this offensive. A right to agree to disagree should be allowed on this forum.
FWIW in my experience the aptitude to do one tempis, pirouettes, piaffe and passage may be genetic as well as trained. I prefer to load the dice with proven talent and not just platitudes.
Carry on! There are some super names coming up!
I agree completely that the movements that separate the men from the boys, the big tour horses from the small tour horses, do need the horse to have aptitude. My current riding horse is by a stallion who is schooling GP (Le Rouge), her damsire is GP (King Arthur) and her damline is currently the strongest in the studbook having produced multiple GP horses and licensing champions (Kasimir and Kissinger). Does she find piaffe/ passage/ pirouettes/ one times easy? Oh yes. She’s schooling all of them as a not-quite 8yo who is ridden by an amateur 2-3 times a week.
IMO Bloodlines matter. If only to find a horse with the psyche to take the pressure and the constitution to stay sound.
IN further reference to Paginini, he came from the Burt Rutten stable and was confirmed Grand Prix at the age of 8 and at 18 continues to compete at Grand Prix. Achieving that level is one thing…remaining there consistently is yet another.
Here is a clip of him competing in a freestyle at Dressage at Devon in pouring rain.
Pablo (I don’t think I saw him listed anyway).
[QUOTE=Hocus Focus;7400835]
IN further reference to Paginini, he came from the Burt Rutten stable and was confirmed Grand Prix at the age of 8 and at 18 continues to compete at Grand Prix. Achieving that level is one thing…remaining there consistently is yet another.
Here is a clip of him competing in a freestyle at Dressage at Devon in pouring rain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4LM1Vi4ls[/QUOTE]
I just want to say, in reference (and deference) to people who perform in the pouring rain on those big moving horses… It’s so amazing how seamlessly they continue to ride, despite how slippery their reins get, and how slick the saddle gets. I’ve been there, and there was lots of wiggling!
