Grazing on Frosty Grass

[Parrs_Gold_Bar]

I recently brought my two retirees home. One is a 15’2 appendix, the other a 15hh standardbred.

Since winter has set in I have been putting out hay; but the pasture they’re in is 8 acres, so unless there is so much snow to make the grass totally inaccessible, they don’t touch it.

I have two questions:

1. laminitis is associated with ponies, what about horses? Any other repercussions related to having 24/7 access to a pasture during fluctuating temperatures? I understand the risk of colic if the horse was turned out on the grass on an empty stomach, but this isn’t the case.

2. Any concerns with weight loss if they choose to paw through snow and graze the grass underneath instead of eating the hay I’ve put out? Cause that’s what they prefer to do. Are they pretty good about self monitoring the amount of energy that goes into foraging, or should I lock them in the sacrifice area with a bale of hay every once in a while?

I’ve never been in a position both at home or boarding, where the horses have had a large enough pasture to graze year-round. This is new territory for us.

Thanks in advance for your advice

[Palm_Beach]

It really depends on what is growing in your pasture, and the condition and characteristics of your horses. safergrass.org is a good place for you to start reading up on laminitis and pasture.

[danacat]

As Palm Beach said: safergrass.org is an excellent site.

But to address your 1st. question: laminitis from grass can absolutely affect horses, not just ponies, and certain horse breeds are more susceptible than others.

As for your horses pawing through snow: Horses will always prefer grass to hay. It’s their natural diet. The instinct to graze – even in winter – is profound.

But horses will not willingly starve themselves by only foraging for grass. They WILL eat their hay-- unless the hay is either extremely unpalitable or of such poor quality that winter grass foraging is the better option.

Keep in mind that FUEL in the form of hay (when grass is scarce) keeps domestic horses warm in winter. So make sure your hay is of good quality. If your horses NEVER eat your hay, then something is wrong with it.

Also, IMO – movement is good for horses. I personally would not lock them up.

But please read ‘safergrass’ and other articles on laminitis from grass consumption. Laminitis is a year round problem. Best to be educated.

[TrueColours]

Many many years ago, the old time horsemen always warned us about letting our horses eat the “frosty grass” as it could cause them to founder. I always believed it to be on Old Wives Tale until I actually looked into it a decade or so ago and turns out they were right …

When the grass freezes, it concentrates the sugars in a huge way in the frozen blade of grass. Think of icewine and how they cultivate the frozen grapes at a very specific temperature and time when the sugar content is the highest in the grapes. Blades of grass are exactly the same thing. They may graze safely on it today, tomorrow and the next day because the optimum freezing and concentration of sugars isn’t at play just quite yet and you will think all is okay, but in 3 days, the optimum “time” is reached, the sugar concentration is sky high, they graze on it and “bingo!” you have foundered horses to deal with …

So - I have now always heeded the Old Timers warnings - never let your horses eat the frosty grass …

[SMF11]

Many horses live out 24/7 year round and do just fine. If you horses are IR or otherwise at risk it might be a concern, otherwise horses out on grass in the winter is normal.

[SnicklefritzG]

Regarding frosty grass, how can that really be prevented without locking the horses up?

[TrueColours]

^^^ We have grass pastures and we have “sacrifice” mostly sand paddocks that are used in the winter or on bad weather days in order to preserve the grass ones.

Through the winter they don’t use any of the grass ones - they are in the sacrifice paddocks with non stop, free choice hay instead

We only use the grass ones now for taking pictures in, as long as ground conditions are optimal to do so. Generally speaking the first they would go back into the grass ones would be early to mid May, increasing an hour or so each day

It works beautifully for us with our set up - may not be the case with others depending on available paddocks and # of horses on the property …

[Parrs_Gold_Bar]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I’ll be checking out that site.

The hay is fine - they do like it, it’s just that after a while they get bored and prefer to go eat the grass instead.

I’ve been off work this past week and have noticed they have become nocturnal, would there be that much in a difference in taste to drive them to start grazing overnight?

[merrygoround]

The old time horsemen di say frosty grass was a problem, but having had horses in full time daily work, there wasn’t a problem.

However for those pasture puffs, it can be a problem because of the fluctuating sugars. Once the grass goes winter dormant it is reasonably safe, but watch out in the spring.

[Magicboy]

I think the frosty grass is only a problem if the horse doesn’t have regular work/exercise and if the aren’t used to it at all. So a frosty grass binge by a horse not in work could cause problems.

[Palm_Beach]

It’s not frost that is the problem. Katy has a good article on her website titled “When is dead grass safe to graze.” Green grass that gets killed quickly by cold temps will retain suger until it gets rained and snowed on enough to rinse out some of the sugar. If there was a drought before the freeze, it will be even higher in sugar. So if you have “freeze dried” grass, meaning the tops are brown, but when you part the grass the stems are still green, you have grass that could cause laminitis in some horses. If the grass is dead and brown all the way to the ground, it’s probably safe for most horses. The warm temp grasses are usually lower in sugar this time of year because they are completely dead, but some of the cool temp grasses are hardier into winter. You need to go out in your pasture and see what you got.

[TrueColours]

^^^ Agree 100%! We still haven’t had a really hard freeze, so in November and December - traditionally “Dead Grass” times around here, our grass was still as green and lush as could be. Heck - my alfalfa fields were still going to flower in October and growing like the dickens!

Right now as the little bit of snow that we got is melting, everything is green and lush underneath. Except for maybe the tops of the alfalfa we have literally “0” brown grass anywhere. Its still bright green

So - from what I have heard and read, the fall grass can be equally as volatile as spring grass can and from our conditions and what my hay fields and pastures looked like up til December and really - even right now - all of them are perfectly capable of foundering them if I put them out onto grass right now

First the drought all summer long and now this. Its been a really weird year for sure …

[Foxtrot_s]

Spring and Fall — often there is a dry period, grass slows down, then with the first flush rains of fall it springs back to life for a while.

Meantime, up in the ranchlands horses are kept out on grass year long. Here
where we get mild winters, when it does frost I let my horse out on pasture for a nibble and stretch leg…she is not on it where she can turn it to mud. Never had a problem.

Have had a problem in cold weather when horses are kept in and not moving when the tummies get slower.

[Parrs_Gold_Bar]

OK, I had a similar train of thought as most of what has been mentioned above which is good to know. I grew up with a very old school horse woman who was paranoid about foundering her schoolies and would only allow the herd on grass a couple hours a day, max (regardless of season).

We will eventually section off smaller fields that will be easier to monitor, but this is our first year on the property and the budget only allowed for the perimeter fence.

We’re in the same boat as TC, our field was hayed mid-June and then never grew back, worst drought in recent history. Right now the grass is a 50/50 mixture of green and brown, I attribute that to the fact that it hasn’t been mowed in 6 months.

[Parrs_Gold_Bar]

OK, I had a similar train of thought as most of what has been mentioned above which is good to know. I grew up with a very old school horse woman who was paranoid about foundering her schoolies and would only allow the herd on grass a couple hours a day, max (regardless of season).

We will eventually section off smaller fields that will be easier to monitor, but this is our first year on the property and the budget only allowed for the perimeter fence.

We’re in the same boat as TC, our field was hayed mid-June and then never grew back, worst drought in recent history. Right now the grass is a 50/50 mixture of green and brown, I attribute that to the fact that it hasn’t been mowed in 6 months.

[TrueColours]

Where are you located in Ontario? We are south of Brantford and we got 3 cuts off our fields (we always do - that’s normal for us) and could have taken a 4th that was knee high or more if we had better temps at night that would have allowed us to dry it down properly … The 4th actually looked like the best growth we had all season - it was beautiful and it broke my heart we couldn’t get it cut and baled …

[Parrs_Gold_Bar]

[QUOTE=TrueColours;8994133]
Where are you located in Ontario? We are south of Brantford and we got 3 cuts off our fields (we always do - that’s normal for us) and could have taken a 4th that was knee high or more if we had better temps at night that would have allowed us to dry it down properly … The 4th actually looked like the best growth we had all season - it was beautiful and it broke my heart we couldn’t get it cut and baled … :([/QUOTE]

Niagara. Our grass stopped growing after the first cut. The field never got past ankle height afterward

The best I saw on our street was someone who took a second cut that was less than half the yield that go the first time.

I work in the GTA and noticed the pavement always dried up the further East I drove

[Tory]

My nine acre pasture is founder central. We can produce quite a bit of hay from it in the summer (600 bales on the second cutting).

I have my horses turned out with grazing muzzles year round and limit turn out from 30 min to three hours depending on the time of year and conditions.

They have free choice hay in their stalls and 24x36’ all weather paddocks attached to the stalls.

They are very happy and when the weather is icky, they prefer to be in a cozy barn!

[tazycat]

There’s plenty of horses who live out 24/7 on pasture in winter. Nothing wrong with them pawing through snow to eat grass underneath. Good exercise and keeps them moving. Where I live horses have round bales out and go from eating hay to pawing for grass.

Better then a corral kept horse who’s limited on movement. More natural for them to be able to cover lots of ground.

[caper]

This year no second cut. The drought was severe. My turnou paddocks even died off. Their came back in Sept/Oct. I have to pay a farmer and if there isn’t much to cut it is worth his trouble. TC how early do you start cutting to get almost 4 cuts?

I am near the lake so it is hard to get the hay to dry with the humidity in the air.