GREAT Zenyatta-as-HOY story - and stuff you didn't know about Mosses

[Glimmerglass]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;5228019]
No, I think you’ll find fairly universal agreement that she’s probably the single best horse in the world at the moment, and has been if not the best, at least one of the top five for the last couple of years. But see, some of us I guess are kind of weirdos, in that we like to see the single best horse in the world running against the other best horses in the world, if not every time they set foot on the track, as least most of the time. Zenyatta has spent the majority of her career running against powder puffs in SoCal.[/QUOTE]

Here, here. I think that sums up the situation quite well.

Her achievement of going 19-0 (and a near miss for the 20th) is worthy of all the lauding she’s received for that specific accomplishment. To keep a horse year over year physically competitive, mentally focused, healthy for each and every race is a feat.

However the decisions to have a weak campaign for 2010, save for the BCC, was a disappointment that many warned openly in the spring, summer and fall of this year. California racing was soft - I didn’t say absent - all year with competition for her category. When you run in the same race you won twice already and they re-named in your honor doesn’t that scream of being in a rut?

Go back to Cigar - he shipped across the country while maintaining his undefeated run. His connections didn’t stay at the same old tracks, scaring off runners or just cashing the checks. Zenyatta didn’t pick her schedule and rose to the occasion to defeat all those put on the track against her save for one and even that was damn close. The biggest loss wasn’t her 20th start it was showing what she could’ve really done against something other than Grade 3 winners in her 19th, 18th, 17th, 16th …

[Rubyfree]

@Drvmb1ggl3;5228019

No, I think you’ll find fairly universal agreement that she’s probably the single best horse in the world at the moment, and has been if not the best, at least one of the top five for the last couple of years. But see, some of us I guess are kind of weirdos, in that we like to see the single best horse in the world running against the other best horses in the world, if not every time they set foot on the track, as least most of the time. Zenyatta has spent the majority of her career running against powder puffs in SoCal.

+1, thumbs up, like, ditto, this, brava!

[danceronice]

Again–after the Breeder’s Cup Classic LAST year, if people were so certain they could beat her, the roads don’t just go AWAY from California.

If another horse is named HOTY, it’s going to be such fun explaining to the fans who came for Zenyatta and might not stay for the racing how exactly the Eclipse Awards aren’t a joke.

[Pirateer]

@NCRider;5225513

Where Zenyatta’s connections and superfans rub me the wrong way is that they want me to say that she’s up there with Secretariat, Man O’War, Forego, Busher, etc. without ever having proven it on the track. I think she’s a very talented horse who has been very carefully managed to avoid losing. The overly emotional overstatement of her place in history offends me. It offends my sense of racing history and the apreciation I have of the incredible things that have been accomplished by top horses over time. What she’s proven to me is that she’s as good as Tiznow on the track and she’s as popular as Funny Cide or Smarty Jones in the press.

If Zenyatta’s connections wanted her to belong in the ranks of the All-Time greats, they should have run her like one. Otherwise, don’t get offended when some of us are unwilling to take their word that “for real” she’d beat Secretariat, Citation and Man o’War. You don’t get to leave the ranks of Personal Ensign, Azeri, etc, leap frog over Affirmed, Alydar, Sunday Silence, Alysheba, Easy Goer, Spectacular Bid, etc. and join the ranks of Secretariat, MOW, etc. with a campaign like she’s had. Not even if Mike Smith swears it is so with his hand over his heart and tears in his eyes.

Love this!

[Drvmb1ggl3]

@danceronice;5228881

Again–after the Breeder’s Cup Classic LAST year, if people were so certain they could beat her, the roads don’t just go AWAY from California.

What were the top horses in the country supposed to do, ship to Cali and get a sex change operation along the way?
For godsakes, even the top older horses in California (Rail Trip, Richard;s Kid, Dakota Phone etc), the ones she was stabled right next to, were barred from running against her. Were her connections really afraid of the field for the Big 'Cap at Santa Anita? The Pac Classic?
Man, I can’t believe you even made that argument.

[danceronice]

Well, the argument is she didn’t race any good MARES, either. From the way some people are talking it’s amazing any of her competition, a bunch of broken-down nags, got around the track. So, where are these top mares and fillies and what was keeping them from heading out? (Or stopping by Oaklawn.)

And, again–last year she beat the best males in the country. This year she beat all but one (two if you count Gioponti, who was in another race). Who only beat her by a head and a better trip. At their distance. On dirt in the latter case. RA was given horse of the year for beating three-year-old males at her distance and fading, and so-so older males at the same, and raced only on her surface. Without being undefeated.

[Calena]

In the interest of being fair and impartial, I’ve been researching the HOF records to discover how Zenyatta’s 6 yo season really stacks up.

My first question was how many of the mares/fillies were still racing at 6. The number is 16. I then checked to see how many of those 16 raced in open company at age 6. The number is 8 - going back over 120 years of American racing. The mares are:

Mare, Year, Record, Major Stakes Wins

1. Princess Doreen, 1927, 12/4/1/3 - won the Independence Hcp.
2. Firenze, 1890, 14/7/3/0, Freehold Stakes, NY Hcp, Knickerbocker Hcp, Coney Island Cup
3. Two Lea, 1952, 11/6/3/0, Hollywood Gold Cup
4. Dahlia, 1976, 13/2/0/1, Hollywood Invitation (Turf)
5. Miss Woodford, 1886, 7/6/1/0, Ocean Stakes (note - at age 3, 4 & 5 won 16 in a row!)
6. Azeri, 2004, 8/3/2/0, 5th BCC
7. Gallorette, 1948, 15/4/4/3, Carter Hcp, beat Stymie in the Queens County
8. Imp, 1900, 31/8/10/9, Advanced Stakes

At least now I can compare apples to apples in reviewing Zenyatta’s 2010 season.

9. Zenyatta, 2010, 6/5/1/0, 2nd BCC

Blame won’t make the HOF, so I’m not going to bother with that comparison.

[danceronice]

So the most comparable is Miss Woodford, except in 1886 it was practically a different sport. But on basic numbers she went Z one better. (I am going to go look her up.)

And Imp–WOW. Thirty-one starts. They do not make racehorses like that any more. Could you even FIND 31 races above claiming or allowance to run in one year now?

[Paragon]

[QUOTE=danceronice;5228881]
If another horse is named HOTY, it’s going to be such fun explaining to the fans who came for Zenyatta and might not stay for the racing how exactly the Eclipse Awards aren’t a joke.[/QUOTE]

Oh, that would be easy. “You think Zenyatta was something? You’ve GOTTA see…”