Green bean and (not) going forward

Check out your possible physical issues first, as you already know. If you are sure that there are none, then presume that this horse has never truly had “forward” installed, therefore is not “broke” to ride. IMO, every horse needs “forward” installed FIRST, he needs to learn to GO when he is told to GO. He needs to RESPOND accurately, first in his ground work, then later respond similarly under saddle. As his trainer, you can not accept a half response, he must strut forward and confidently on cue at each gait. He must respond accurately and adequately. He must understand what you are asking, and you respond to his efforts in a positive manner. THEN, and only then, you are communicating with each other, responding to each other, and “training” the horse is what is happening.
If he does not go forward and respond on the lead rope, or on the lunge line, he is not ready to ride. He needs to learn that on the ground FIRST, what is expected of him, and what brings him your acceptance and appreciation of his efforts. He must make an effort to please you, and you must respond to these efforts. Good horses want to do the right thing, always, if they understand what the right thing is. This is the relationship you are looking for when training/riding a horse.

Once he does walk, trot, canter and whoa on the lunge line in a forward and responsive manner, you move on to ground driving. This will teach him both “steering”, and “pressure on his mouth means whoa”, and link up pressure on his sides (with the long lines tapping his sides) with potential leg cues that he will equally respond to when you are on his back. You DRIVE him forward from walking and running along behind him. He GOES, he steers, he whoas. Together, you do walk and trot, circles, serpentines, etc in a contained area. You both walk over poles on the ground, and he learns to look where you are sending him, look after stepping over the poles correctly, and around barrels, jump standards, whatever you have. THEN, you strike out into the great outdoors, go out of the arena, and drive him forward around your barn area (if adequately safe), and look for things that he may have an opinion about, perhaps he is uneasy about something. You deal with that, you take his attention away from what he may be concerned about, and drive him forward, and steer. All this without being on his back. He learns to take his cues from you, and respond accurately and safely.

Then, you get on him. You move around in the saddle, and put your leg on his side. You do this in a contained area, a round pen or a large stall. You ask him to move forward from your leg, as you have already taught him to do on the long lines. He goes forward as asked. Don’t be shy, kick him forward, move your legs on his sides. Practice until you get the desired response from him, and congratulate him for his acceptance of these cues, and adequate responses. When you feel safe in a contained area, you strike out into the arena, and ride. You still expect the responses you have installed into the horse to be there adequately, because you made sure they were there before you got onto his back.

A horse who does not respond to these basic cues is simply not yet broke to ride. Being “broke” does not mean that you are simply allowed to sit on his back, it implies an understanding of cues and responses between both horse and rider, lines of communication are established and understood by both parties. A pack horse will usually allow a human to sit on it’s back, but a pack horse is not broke to ride. Teach him the language and the parameters of the relationship before you expect to have a conversation and a partnership with him, and show him the responses you require before expecting him to perform for you.

Good luck! Envision what you want him to do for you, and show him how to respond the way you want him to. And reward for good responses from him. Horse training. (Everything training, actually).

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The idea of giving the horse a purpose as she’s moving forward may be helpful, as a couple of other posters have noted. Try setting up some low-key, gymkhana-type exercises in the ring: weaving through cones or barrels or jump standards that are set up in various patterns, add a low cavalletti in the middle, etc. Maybe, if another person is riding at the same time and they’re willing, play follow-the-leader. Do the exercises at all gaits eventually.

Mix it up a bit. Lots of praise for responding to leg aids.

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You have probably gotten all of the advice you need to fix/improve the issue, but I have one other method that might help. I started a young horse last year that didn’t understand forward under saddle at all. He’d get “bunchy” and spiral himself into a small circle or stop. I tried lots of things like having a person lunge me while in the saddle, someone supporting with a lunge whip from the middle of the arena, etc.

I didn’t always have someone to help on the ground, so one day I left the lunge line and whip in the middle of the arena and every time I asked for trot and he got bunchy and wouldn’t go forward, I got off and lunged him - where he was much more respectful of the forward ask. I had to get off 4 times the first day and 2 times the next three rides and then he understood going forward under saddle.

We do still deal with slowing feet when he’s distracted or wants to go by his friends…and the rogue left shoulder is definitely attracted to the arena exit. But with a better response to forward, both of those are easier to fix in the moment.

I like this a lot. I’m going to give it a shot. Thank you!

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Watching my trainer restart an OTTB that had been badly started was mind-blowing, especially the leg = forward part. She tested the brakes first. Then played with applying the leg. The slightest movement forward for leg applied garnered effusive praise. The horse decided this was the coolest game ever and that he’d hacked the code for scratches & treats. Lol

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Actually horses are pretty good with anticipation, I wouldn’t worry about second part as long as there is enough time between the aid and the pressure for the horse to process what’s happening. This may be the sticky point, there might not be enough time between your leg and the stick for him to process the aid and so he anticipates the pressure by crow hopping. I would also maybe ditch the stick and kicking and try other forms of pressure that don’t involve pain but will still surprise him (wave the stick around, flap your arms or legs, shake the reins, make weird noises).

My horse is naturally lazy so when I want to lighten the aids I do: seat/energy up (wait 1-2 seconds), soft leg squeeze (WAIT 1-2 seconds), shake the reins and cluck until I feel forward movement. I repeat this in a clear and consistent pattern maybe 3 times per session, and I let them mull it over and process what just happened for at least minute or so at the trot. The reward is lack of pressure, so its important not to bring them back down to a walk & repeat too soon as that introduces pressure again. Sometimes I trot longer if I want to have a longer exercise session, so it may end up being 10 minutes between repeating this. Or if I do it in succession, I then move on to something else for the rest of the ride (such as taking a stroll). I repeat this exercise only a couple times per week and within each gait as needed (eg slow walk to forward walk), otherwise I accept the aid response as it is given to me.

Keeping in mind if he doesn’t start to clue in to the lighter aid after a couple asks, and if there isn’t noticeable improvement after a couple of sessions, that means something about my ask isn’t the correct approach. This is okay! I accept this without judgement, it just means a re-assessment and re-adjustment of how to apply the aids and the timing of them, or it means I need to explore other causes to this issue. Not every moment needs to be a training moment, so its okay to accept a bad transition while you figure out a new approach :slight_smile:

Please update us, would love to know how you progress & what ends up working.

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^This is how i do it. And in the case of starting my new little guy, (after first having taught him to ground drive) i had my coach in front, WITH his bff on a leadrope as support/guide…and she walked backward, smiling-encouraging towing his herdmate (placement of other horse was my baby’s head was about at mid-belly to his friend…so he was following) and talking to him. I didn’t kick, i moved my leg back and wiggle my heels. When he moved, we praised profusely and when he did something exceeding his previous good-things, i hopped off and we had a big party. Including treats. He beams… In short little bursts. So in an hour lesson i dismounted and worked on another horse, then got back on him again, three times. And Next time was always significantly improved. Going forward is associated with happiness and good things. But then, i train in R+ for everything, so my way is always going to be something such as this: find something that the horse loves and use the heck out of it. My guy loves to be complimented and petted, he gets distracted by food. My mare likes a bit of palm sugar popped into her mouth, and feels it is a) deserved and b) she needs to do even better for more. Whatever works, i use.

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Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses!

Over the weekend, I gave the advice of @banmharcach a go. We did a little follow-the-leader action. Wow, what a difference. Every time he started thinking forward, I would praise him sincerely. He thought it was a great game. We only did this for a few minutes, then circled away to work on our own. Since he was already in forward mode at that point, it was soooo much easier to maintain. We didn’t do much work after that. I wanted to end on a forward, positive note with lots of praise.

Did the same thing on Sunday with similar results.

We have to be a little cautious, because he’s now getting a wee bit buddy-sour in the ring. But in general, I feel like this is a great start.

Thanks everyone!

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Do you mind if I message you about your R+ methods? My horse is WAY more responsive to R+ than R-, but I can’t figure the best way to do it for under saddle work.