Hi,
Just looking for positive but honest feedback.
I’m 51 & ridden off & on entire life. Have been leasing some “been there, done that” horses for basic lessons the past 8 years.
Bought my 1st horse last winter, 7 yr old Welsh pony/quarter horse. He was unfinished but had a few years of work & knew w/t/c. He started out okay, we did 2 months of ground work as he was unfit to get strength & balance. He began great but over time started showing bad behaviors to me & my trainer. Buck, kick, bolt on line, barn sour on trails (rear, spin), spooky, lazy, etc. His “pony attitude” surfaced. I sold him as he was too much.
Now I’m looking at a 12 year old quarter horse from a rescue led by a retired equine vet with a dressage background. He is sweet, kind, chill but he was started 6 months ago as he was rescued from a feedlot & had 60 days of additional professional training. W/T/C under saddle, great at mounting block & on lunge line. He’s never showed any offer of kick, buck, rear, bolt, etc. & not spooky. I’ve done 30 days at her facility & I really like him & trust him but wonder if I have the basic skill set for such a horse. Now I will work with a trainer at least once a week (preferably more). My concern is could he get frustrated or confused & get in bad habits & become dangerous? I do struggle with confidence and can get nervous. My “head mare” energy is lacking - now I do correct for bad behavior & bad ground manners. His only baggage is he can be timid around people due to feedlot experience.
Thinking I’ll ride/work him 3x a week. Might have a friend ride/work 2x. He’s in 6 day a week light work. 10-15 min lunge & 10-15 min under saddle.
Honest feedback appreciated.
Before purchase, can you pay for him to go to a trainer for 60 or 90 days and ride him under his/her supervis ion?
That ought to make clear what his attitude toward work and your riding will be.
It may be hard to hear, but if you are a timid rider, then a beginner horse may never work for you. Horses will test their limits and if you react with nerves and or indecision, misbehavior will grow.
I wonder, with your pony, did you investigate any health issues, such as ulcers or joint soreness to explain his behavior change? With the new horse’s recent s tress, and now more change, ulcer preventative would be wise. Also, a good wellness exam to see how his joints, etc., are.
Green horses need consistency in addition to confidence and knowledge/skill. A once a week training program is likely not enough when combined with your current level of skill and confidence. Additionally, only working 3 times a week is likely not enough. I’d be hesitant to say whether those two additional times with a friend were good or bad without knowing her skill and confidence level, and her level of consistency with you and your trainer.
Find something that you can ride and enjoy now, without need of additional work from others, or beyond your time and ability.
Really, unless your hobby is owning and paying for complicated horses–which I’ve done not infrequently myself–get thee something you can personally enjoy safely.
Two good options:
Buy a well-trained horse with plenty of miles and suitable temperament and enjoy him right now with nothing more than a weekly lesson.
Buy a greener horse but invest in a full-time training program with a skilled trainer where you get 5 lessons or training rides a week. That way you can continue learning without hampering the horse’s progress.
I would love to the 60-90 days training before purchase with a trainer but unfortunately in our area lots of barns have closed due to development & just finding a place to board is a challenge let alone a trainer I trust with room. All great advice - thank you. As most of you know the horse market is crazy right now. So hard to find horses and pricing is crazy.
Thanks for the advice
I’ve sent horses to professional trainers and i’ve started my own. This time around, with one of my new ones i am hauling into a coach weekly. I don’t (yet) ride him on my own here on farm. Someday, but not yet. Interestingly enough, he is making slow but steady progress with only a matter of minutes of being ridden per week.
Also, the mare i’ve been training ONLY gets rides during lesson which is once per week. I don’t train her on my own. And she is coming along well too.
I’m not in a hurry. Both horses are young (just 4 and just 7). And both actually had some kind of cognative leap during their 3 wk vaca over the holidays. Surprisingly enough.
So, my experience lately is I don’t think it is at all how much time you spend, but what you do during that time.
Your concerns are valid.
The problem with your first post is that this happened under your trainer. It is not a naughty horse who bucks, kicks spins and bolts, it is an overfed horse, a horse in pain or a horse who does not understand what is being asked and is confused.
If you get a horse like this you can only progress with a trainer that can help you and that is not the trainer you had before.
You really need a been there done that horse. After learning from that one, then retraining a few horses, then you are ready to start training horses.
As someone else said, green horses need consistency above all else. Green horses are a whole other skill set. You need to be able to give them confidence, and ride correctly, and correct them instantly, and forgive them just as instantly.
It’s not necessarily the number of times per week the horse is in work, although that’s important, but the quality of the ride. When I was a working student, I had a large warmblood who hauled in once a week for me to ride. Every single week, we were back at zero because the girl who owned him rode him during the week. She was a good rider on a BTDT horse, but didn’t know how to ride a hot, green horse. But her rides were the ones that were reinforced daily, not mine. He had her number, got away with bad behavior, and I would spend an hour trying to get him back to where he’d been the week before.
You say that “My concern is could he get frustrated or confused & get in bad habits & become dangerous? I do struggle with confidence and can get nervous. My “head mare” energy is lacking.” This isn’t a good combo when it comes to training a young horse. You are the leader in this situation. Your aids have to be super-clear. Your riding has to be impeccable and consistent. And maybe most importantly, the riding and training has to be consistent between you, your friend, and the trainer.
I think you need to search for a good schoolmaster. It need not be a Third-level horse, just a nice First Level horse who has a lot of miles and needs a good landing. My Bodie was that horse, and I adored him - just such a fun, easy ride. No worries, ever. I think you will be happier in the long run with such a horse.
What does your trainer say about this horse? Does he or she think this horse will be suitable for your skill level? You’ve had good feedback here, but it’s all from people who don’t know you or your horse. In general, green horses and green riders aren’t a good mix. Still, you’re not totally green, and the horse apparently has some good things going for him. I think it would be useful to get an opinion from somebody who knows both you and the horse.
Will you be involved in the day to day care of the horse? I keep my horses at home, and I’m lucky enough to be able to interact with them every day. I have no doubt that this has been a huge benefit in terms of developing a real partnership with them. Being around them every day has been huge in terms of developing my own confidence around them. And they know very well that I am the boss mare. My point is that I think it would be a real benefit for both you and the horse if you could interact with the horse other than just riding and ground work.
When I first got my horse, my biggest fear was that in my ignorance I would ruin a perfectly good horse. Goodness knows I made some mistakes, but I learned from them, and now I am confident in my ability to manage my horses.
Based on what you’ve written, I wouldn’t consider you a green rider. There’s also no indication that this current horse is anything like the first (who sounds like he was a bit of a outlier, i.e. those aren’t common behavioural problems).
So you’ve already been riding BTDT horses for 8 years and this potential new horse has demonstrated a calm demeanor and has had 60 days professional training AND you’ve had the opportunity to try him out for the past 30? Personally, I’d proceed with the purchase but would be very aware of behavioural issues arising … and would consider switching trainers (common denominator) if ill-fitting equipment and/or pain is ruled out.
OP,
I’m a bit concerned from your first post, where you say your last horse started great but started showing bad behaviors to you and your trainer. This tells me that neither you nor your trainer were able to be “boss mare” to this horse and he just did what horses do when they feel they are in a leadership vacuum - take over.
The first thing I’d suggest is learning how to assert leadership with groundwork. That should carry over to undersaddle but you’ll likely have to reinforce the groundwork regularly.
The new prospect doesn’t really have a background in dressage. He was only started 6 months ago and happened to be ridden in a dressage saddle. It’s tricky to work with a 12 year old that had 12 years to do what he wanted and now riding is considered a “new job” to him. And he doesn’t know much about undersaddle work and lived life happily without knowing much. He may very well constantly suggest to you that the work is too hard and he can’t do it, and it sounds like you don’t have the confidence to say “yes you can, and you will”. You’re not assertive and he can be timid. This could be a very bad combo in a year from now.
I’m not sure what your goals are. Even a “been there done that” horse will decline in training if you aren’t a confident rider. So I first think you need to tackle your fear/lack of leadership with horses before you buy. Consider taking more lessons on confident horses, or stepping out of the box to take groundwork lessons with a qualified person. Consider leasing a good horse for a year to build confidence.
If you think your horse could get confused, get bad habits and become dangerous, you’re really not in the frame of mind to buy another horse right now. Work on your own self-confidence first. Sure, that can take a while! Let it take as long as it needs to! Lease or do a partial lease on a horse. Lease a “been there done that” retiree for a year. You’ll gain confidence and the owner will be happy that the horse is getting great care for a year.
Good luck!!
I have a client that kind of sounds like you. Started riding later in life (had a very bad experience as a child, then didn’t ride again until her 50s). She is a perfectly able rider, but she is nervous. I didn’t appreciate how nervous watching her ride my very steady and smooth lesson horse, but with her own horse it became apparent. It wasn’t even that her horse is “bad” but as the horse owner aged, she became less tolerant of any jostling, or funny steps, and can’t control her reflex of pulling up suddenly and getting tight when anything goes even slightly unexpected.
I don’t know if you are that nervous, but some horses can handle a nervous rider, some cannot. I don’t think you can train that sort of tolerance in a horse.
I think also, that a nervous OR novice rider is more likely to trigger a relapse into bad behaviour or bring back past trauma.
Spend the money to buy a horse that you love NOW, and feel safe on NOW. You and the horse both deserve it. Use a pro to keep the horse happy. Lease if you can.
Get a horse who is already where you want/need it to be.
I’m by no means a novice rider. I have a young horse I broke in myself, who is going super well, but green horses are hard work. She’s been remarkably easy and is very willing, and the process has been very rewarding, but I wouldn’t say it’s been “fun” as such. There’s an under lying current of mild anxiety in any new situation of “what will she do”.
Some day’s its almost a relief to jump on the BTDT horse, who despite being a much trickier ride, is also more reliable and I never really have any cause to worry about anything.
Here’s another vote for getting a horse YOU CAN RIDE RIGHT NOW WITHOUT FEAR.
Edited to add….the horse you are currently looking at does not meet my criteria for being a good bet for you.
There are already so many unknowns in purchasing a horse. Even getting a horse that has the training for what you want, apparently seems sound, and you have one or two nice rides on isn’t a guarantee. You are not a trainer or a flipper or someone who has the goal of going on a long and existential journey that may or may not end up with you riding this horse.
You sound like someone who wants to enjoy riding right now. The only way to Get that, and of course leave room for unforeseen circumstances, is to buy a horse that is doing what you want to do right now, that you can ride COMFORTABLY right now. Just do it, spend the money, don’t get stuck in some sort of rescue mentality.
I am a trainer, and I cannot count the number of times that I’ve dealt with the fallout of well-meaning middle-aged ladies who think they’re going to do a good deed and get a horse from a less than ideal circumstance, and have a lifelong companion. It rarely works out. You have to have a compatible skill set. From what you have described of your own skill set, I recommend getting a well trained horse who is able to navigate a rider with some tension and fear concerns.
Learn from your mistake with the previous horse. Just the fact that you are writing in to this board means that you know this is not really a good idea. Find yourself a trainer who has your best interest at heart. Be prepared to have the horse stay in some form of training for a couple of months while you learn about each other.
Nobody can predict the future, but it is very likely that he will become too much horse based on your past experience.
Every horse has a kick/buck/rear/bolt/spook, these are normal horse behaviours caused by the horse’s lack of confidence, defiance, confusion, pain, etc. Poor training can bring these out, proper training can mitigate these to the point that the horse never does them.
IMO a better fit is a horse that has years and years of experience. Life is too short to be stressed by potential bad horse behaviour. Horses like your “been there, done that” leases sound like a fun purchase. Maybe a horse looking for a semi-retirement home that would be happy to work 3 times a week 
Plan on a program! Swap days for training rides and lessons. There’s always going to be something to work through once the honeymoon is over. Or if you have a smaller budget (choosing g between green and old) go for an older horse that has been there done that has maintainence and is stepping down.
This sums it up. To add to my previous post, said young horse is nearly a year under saddle. She is certainly alot MORE enjoyable to ride now, but we are yet to reach a point where she is a “jump on and ride for fun” horse. I am confident she will get there as she has the right nature for it, but she’s got a long way to go.
My older mare is the enjoyable one. If I want to work her, I can. If I want to go for a gallop on the trails, I can. If I want to go for a nice easy plod without worrying about anything, I can. She is my “do what I want, vs what the horse currently needs”. And that sounds like more what you are after.
« This tells me that neither you nor your trainer were able to be “boss mare” to this horse and he just did what horses do when they feel they are in a leadership vacuum - take over. »
Not necessarily - as it takes more than that to really analyze and train horses appropriately.
Yet I believe the OP and her trainer were overwhelmed by that last horse and the knowledge and skills resulted in a unsuitable horse overtime.
Was it poorly trained?
Was it a lack of knowledge in underlying medical condition?
Probably both. - Being an « alpha mare » wouldn’t have solved this as I don’t believe corrections of pain induced reactions to be very good training methods.
OP - Get yourself a good (better) trainer, a good horse you can ride now and enjoy.
If a horse’s condition is deteriorating, one mist consult with a vet and find someone (trainer) to assess the problem correctly.
