Gribaldi semen now 5,000 euro!

[bluemoonfarms]

I am anxiously awaiting a Hofrat/Donnerhall ET due mid June. :)

[quietann]

[QUOTE=Dutch;6284132]
I crossed Totilas with my Elite Ferro x Wanroij mare last year. The end product is this black filly, born last week, April 20th:
http://www.angelfire.com/ns2/our_horses/page25Hosanna.html[/QUOTE]

Beautiful filly!

[Maren]

Frankly, it’s impossible to udnerstand all of Toto’s and others’ “greatness” just from pondering their pedigree. And to limit Gribaldi to his sire line, w/o question a wonderful dressage line, would be pretty narrow-minded.
His dam has produced others, e.g. the FEI stallion Goldino (by the TB Patricius xx). Also, Gribaldi’s pedigree is the result of some pretty nice line breeding to Ibikus, w/o a doubt the leading riding horse producer of his time (just have a look at other Ibikus grandsons all through the dam, Sixtus, Anduc, Van Deyk, Induc etc). Kostolany carries Ibikus, and Ibikus himself was line bred to Impuls, yet another all time great (and this one with very potent jumping abilities in his get as well).
It’s the mix of many things, the balance of all around athletics (not only dressage horses in this paper) that make this type of modern sport horse “work”.

[stolensilver]

I think that’s a bit harsh Maren. The shared sire line of Gribaldi and Silvermoon has produced the two greatest dressage horses of recent times (IMO at any rate) in Totilas and Blue Hors Matine. Kostolany, their common sire, is one of the rare stallions that can truly be called a legend.

Yes, Matine’s dam was also rather special producing Ballaseyr Royale, an Olympic dressage mare under Richard Davison by a totally unrelated Swedish stallion. And, by contrast, Totilas’ brothers do not seem to be turning into the same quality of dressage horse as the shining black stallion himself.

But you’ve got to start somewhere! Breeding is a gamble, we all know that. However it is also true that some stallion lines, when crossed with the right mare, consistently produce outstanding athletes. Gribaldi’s list of top quality competitors is long and illustrious. Painted Black, Distelzar, Hofrat as well as Totilas. Silvermoon’s is also impressive from a very small number of foals. Matine, Succes, Dark Moon.

Both stallions have shown that they cross very well onto non-Trakehner mares. I think using this line on a good warmblood mare has quite a predictable outcome and if what these stallions bring to the table is what your mare needs then it is not only a good idea to use them, it’s also reasonable to put at least some of the success of the cross down to the shared blood coming from Kostolany.

[DownYonder]

FWIW, three Gribaldi offspring finished in the top 10 in the Kür at Horses and Dreams - Totilas (1), Schianto (4), Girasol 7 (7). That certainly doesn’t justify a price of 5000E for Gribaldi frozen semen, though - esp. since the frozen doesn’t work! And his owner knows it doesn’t work, which is why he is offering a payment plan. I suspect he will get some takers, too, who are willing to risk a few thousand Euros trying the frozen.

For the person that asked how many mares were bred with Totilas semen in NA last year - I guess only the semen importers know the true number of how many doses they shipped, but I know at least three people who used it last year. Two have foals due in a few weeks (one is an ET foal), and one used all her doses trying to do an ET (first flushes resulted in no embryo, last flush provided a viable embryo but the recip mare didn’t hold it).

[paulamc]

There are a few horses here in Australia by Gribaldi so obviously the semen worked at some time anyway. not at all sure what it is like now though

Paulamc

[Maren]

Stolensilver, what I meant is that Gribaldi and also Kostolany share more than just a good sire line - there is a focus on Ibikus, and therefore Impuls blood in this pedigree. And it has worked beautifully for many years and in many non-Kostolany horses. Not taking away from this sire line, simply pointing out that one needs an open mind to more than just sires.

[aquafarms]

I had a colt born last night from my Grabaldi son Kougar Von C and it really is amazing how the phenotype is so consistent through the generations. I’m kind of excited about the foal coming from my Enrico Caruso/Akita/Ibikus, dam line of Anduc

[siegi_b]

Congratulations on what I’m sure is a super colt, Aquafarms!!! You know I have a soft spot in my heart for Kougar and then you add the motherline and it almost doesn’t get any better.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=Maren;6284747]
Frankly, it’s impossible to udnerstand all of Toto’s and others’ “greatness” just from pondering their pedigree. And to limit Gribaldi to his sire line, w/o question a wonderful dressage line, would be pretty narrow-minded.
His dam has produced others, e.g. the FEI stallion Goldino (by the TB Patricius xx). Also, Gribaldi’s pedigree is the result of some pretty nice line breeding to Ibikus, w/o a doubt the leading riding horse producer of his time (just have a look at other Ibikus grandsons all through the dam, Sixtus, Anduc, Van Deyk, Induc etc). Kostolany carries Ibikus, and Ibikus himself was line bred to Impuls, yet another all time great (and this one with very potent jumping abilities in his get as well).
It’s the mix of many things, the balance of all around athletics (not only dressage horses in this paper) that make this type of modern sport horse “work”.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree! When an animal is able to pass on that much talent it has to come from both sides. And while phenotype can skip a generation, the genoptye dosen’t. It is easy for people to overlook the contributions that Traks make since the numbers are smaller and they are less visable because the “crosses” are never called Traks.

[rodawn]

[QUOTE=hackinaround;5385825]
Starting out by prefacing that I think Gribaldi was a nice stallion and obviously proved himself in sport and as a sire but in my personal opinion I think if you were looking for the real key to Totilas’s success genetically I would guess to pin it on his mare line and his grand sire http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/ikosto.html http://www.gestuet-haemelschenburg.de/html/e_kostol.html
NOT Girbaldi.

If I was looking to ride that train in any shape or form I would go to Kostolany not Gribaldi.[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree here. Kostolany was much more consistent producer and worked with a broader range of mares. Gribaldi had a few successes, but truly Toto is a product of his mareline.

[Dan]

There is a very nice son of Gribaldi now standing at Schockemohle’s: Grey Flanell.

http://schockemoehle.com/front_content.php?client=6&lang=19&idart=2413

The mother Onoeska is listed as #68 in the KWPN top dressage broodmare list:
http://www.kwpn.nl/downloads/D_M_KIND.pdf

Dan

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Fancy That;5386647]
I’m simply amazed at the cookie-cutter quality of the sireline. Look at photos of:

Enrico Caruso
Kostolony
Gribaldi
Totilas

They are mirror images of eachother! I love love love Kostolony and his sire, EC. Amazing how versatile they were. The photos showing them doing everything from tricks (laying down), circus, vaulting, jumping, skijoring, sleigh rides, kids “pony” AND DRESSAGE…it’s just beatiful! Must be something that Otto prided himself on (wht EC and Kostolony)

I just had to remark on the likeness of this line. Talk about stamping your foals! You could put Totilas next to EC and they could pass as eachother, phenotype-wise.[/QUOTE]

And yet during all his years in the US, breeders did NOT flock to Enrico C. You could breed to him for under $1500. Back then Trakeners had a bad rep in the disposition dept. it seems…

And I may be wrong, but didn’t Kostolony stand in the USA as well? Or at least his frozen. I seem to remember I was offered it at a very low rate, but I was spooked with my past experience with frozen…

Talk about hindsight…:rolleyes: