I have looked at 2 younger-ish (4-6) Grindstone mares now and both of them have a teeny bit of roaching (for lack of a better term) where the lumbosacral meets the croup. One had it worse than the other. Since that’s 2 now, I am thinking this is something he contributes?
Does anybody know? And, more pointedly, is a slight roaching at that spot a deal breaker? Or career limiter?
Advice?
This is something Grindstone himself has and passes along. I’ve seen it in many from the line. It’s easily disguised in “good” pictures, but it’s there. I’ve attached pictures below where it’s visible to some degree.
Grindstone: [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: IMG_8518.jpg?format=750w.jpg Views: 1 Size: 29.4 KB ID: 9833461”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9833461”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
Birdstone, by Grindstone: [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: GaineswayConformation_0.jpg?GapuZZEQn2AWegf3HgNZQPzIcJE2R1NP&itok=hd_Wzqd7.jpg Views: 1 Size: 15.8 KB ID: 9833462”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9833462”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
Birdrun, by Birdstone: [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: aae3052274fe470fbfb0d3245b1ce479.jpg?preset=default.jpg Views: 1 Size: 59.5 KB ID: 9833463”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9833463”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
Summer Bird, by Birdstone: [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name: 3930292668_f8b620c2b1.jpg Views: 1 Size: 27.3 KB ID: 9833464”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“9833464”,“data-size”:“full”}[/ATTACH]
Not all of them inherit it, but it seems to be very common. I can’t answer your question whether or not it’s career limiting; all of the horses above were wildly successful racehorses. I tend to find the Grindstone line less durable than average. Then again, horses don’t read their paper, so you always have to evaluate the horse in front of you.
Thanks! Appreciate the info!
@Texarkana less durable in what way? The roach in her back is mild, altho I suspect her flat croup disguises it somewhat.
My purpose is a dressage/trails horse, with the dressage being (hopefully) through 3rd level, so a decent amount of collection.
A mild arch over the loin will not harm your horse’s athletic ability in any way.
How your horse actually moves and quickness of reflexes and agility/ natural willingness to shift weight is far more important to her suitability.
Along with a temperament that accepts Dressage training in the form that you offer it.
Bridrun is a very attractive horse.
My personal experience is that a considerable number are prone to repeat injuries to the point where they cannot maintain any sort of regular training schedule. Plagued with little things. Possibly more of a lack of mental toughness than anything.
But horses are individuals and that does not mean all off the line are the same.
Are you saying they are wussy??? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
sorry, couldn’t resist! :winkgrin:
Very. :lol:
I don’t generally view Grindstone or Birdstone as sport-horse prospects. Every now and then I see one that is good looking enough, but not enough to ever pull the trigger. They make better race horses than sport horses in my opinion, as they should, being bred for racing and all. A shame because I think Grindstone has a superb damside for sport.
Personally, while Unbridled has enjoyed tremendous success on the track, there are not many sons of his that I am overly fond of from a soundness or sport standpoint. I would argue that it’s incredibly important to see a very solid damline any time you have Unbridled tail male like you would with Grindstone. Personally, what I tend to not care for in Unbridled (and in Grindstone) is the upright pasterns and weak back.
It is interesting to me that from a sporthorse perspective, Unbridled has some sons that are very nice movers. Unbridled Song and Broken Vow are incredibly coveted by eventers. Both need very strong, sound dam-lines in my opinion.
[TABLE=“border: 1, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0”]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]STEAM IRON (USA)
gr/r. 2006[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]STORM CREEK (USA)
b. 1993[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]STORM CAT (USA)
br. 1983[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]STORM BIRD (CAN)
b. 1978[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]NORTHERN DANCER (CAN)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1961 [BC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]SOUTH OCEAN (CAN)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1967 *[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]TERLINGUA (USA)*
ch. 1976[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]SECRETARIAT (USA)[/TD]
[TD]ch. 1970 [IC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]CRIMSON SAINT (USA)[/TD]
[TD]ch. 1969 *[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]SHAWNEE CREEK (USA)
b. 1980[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 1”]MR. PROSPECTOR (USA)
b. 1970 [BC][/TD]
[TD=“width: 10, bgcolor: #705AB7”] [/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]RAISE A NATIVE (USA)[/TD]
[TD]ch. 1961 [B][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]GOLD DIGGER (USA)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1962 *[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]BACK ACK (USA)
b. 1976[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]ACK ACK (USA)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1966 [IC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]SQUARE GENERATION (USA)[/TD]
[TD]ch. 1969 *[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]VAPORIFIC (USA)
gr/r. 1995[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]IRON COURAGE (USA)
gr. 1984[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]CARO (IRE)
gr. 1967 [IC][/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]FORTINO (FR)[/TD]
[TD]gr. 1959[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]CHAMBORD (GB)[/TD]
[TD]ch. 1955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]FLEET COURAGE (USA)
b. 1972[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]FLEET NASRULLAH (USA)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1955[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]SPARTAN WOMAN (USA)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1962[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]MELTEMI MISS (USA)
1991[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]AL NASR (FR)
br. 1978[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]LYPHARD (USA)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1969 [C][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]CARETTA (IRE)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1973[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]BRIGHT MOONLIGHT (USA)
1978[/TD]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]NASHUA (USA)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1952 [IC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD=“colspan: 2”]MOONBEAM (USA)[/TD]
[TD]b. 1967[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
there’s the dam side.
@beowulf well whoops I tried to copy/paste the dam line it didn’t go thru…
the dam in this instance is Steam Iron, she’s by Storm Creek by Storm Cat, and out of Vaporific, by Iron Courage.
I don’t really know anything about these lines except for Storm Cat’s rep of difficult dispositions.
I’ve defended it before but I don’t find Storm Cat progeny to be particularly difficult. IMHO, laypeople who have no business owning an OTTB, put it in a stall 20 hrs a day, feed it crazy amounts of grain, not work or train it appropriately or manage it appropriately, and then blame their failure on the only name in the pedigree they recognize, rather than looking at their own shortcomings in management and training.
SC progeny are generally quite sensitive, but in a good way - the type of sensitive where you can turn your head and they do a 180 for you. They generally tend to be easy keepers as far as TBs go, some of them have very good feet too. My experience with them has been that they are very intelligent and honest, but they want and need a fair handler. A lot of them have a very good understanding of fair handling and do not respond well to unfair methods of training. You just need to install the right basics in them. I personally love SC the most through his sons/grandsons and I really think in a few years we are going to realize how powerful SC was for sport: my personal favorites are Delineator, Black Minnaloushe, Giant’s Causeway and Stormy Atlantic.
I can’t speak to the Birdstone lines, but I can to the SC.
So, so true - here’s my mare doing just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTU05YyNbjY
I’ve posted her pedigree before; she’s a great-granddaughter with SC on top and bottom. I have to be careful when asking or even thinking about turning; she will turn out from underneath me, she’s so quick. I have a penny-sized chunk of flesh missing from my leg right now because we landed off an oxer a couple of weeks ago and I apparently over-asked by turning my head AND using my reins and leg. She spun around so fast, centripetal force and gravity got me.
She has a work ethic like none other - very gelding-like in that she shows up ready to work every time - and she’s SUPER brave, much braver than me, haha. @beowulf’s description of SCs is my mare to a T - easy keeper, not a lame step in the 4 years I’ve had her, likes a routine, must have turnout, quick learner.
They make pretty terrible race horses. The Grindstone line is one where lightning occasionally strikes, but has overwhelmingly been a disappointment. Definitely not Unbridled’s most prolific branch.
I have no insight to offer re: pedigrees or conformation, but I do have to say that Steam Iron is one SOLID built gal. She’s listed on Oakhurst’s website selling with her 2017 Giacomo colt.
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