Was there a major difference in these two types of Dutch horses or was it more North Holland vs. South Holland?
Could/would someone give me thoughts on these two types of Dutch foundation horses?
My understanding is that the Groningers were heavier with a coarser head. The Gelderlanders were your all-around riding horses that could do field work and then take you to the party in the eveningā¦
Yes, the Groningers stayed heavier while some of the Gelderlanders although sturdy, were very nice riding horse type. I never saw that from the Groningers, heavier and shorter/heavy necks.
Groninger were from the North (agriculture type) and Gelderlander from the South and were more refined, more elegant. They were also doing farm work but were nicer to pull the carriage and go to horse show on the week-end.
When the KWPN decided to modernized their type and go for sport horses, both Gelders and Groninger were used as their foundation base. The āpureā blood started to slowly disappear.
However some reluctant breeders didnāt want to lose the Gelderlander type. They were not well considered by the studbook. It lasted many years until the Studbook finally accepted to add Gelderlander to Riding and Harness type.
It was hard to find pure Gelderlander blood as it has been mixed for the most part so to be accepted as a Gelderlander your horse has to have a certain percentage of Gelder, I am not sure, 50%, 75%, I would have to check.
Now with the specialization they have made a comeback I guess and are more popular as they are the real all around horse of the KWPN; they can jump, do dressage, and harness. But I see more āstarsā in dressage than in jumper.
Here in America we have Ijsselmeer Ikepono , Olivier and Idocus that I believe have enough Gelderlander blood to register their offspring with the right mare into the Gelders books.
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And here what would give you an idea of the gelderlander type with Patrick who was standing in America
http://www.gelderlanderhorse.nl/english/patrick1.htm
And the Groninger type with Camillus
To see the picture go to report and the last of the drop down menu : photo
Idocus is not classified as Gelderlander. There are only the two.
My foundation Dutch mare was by Pericles xx Keur but the mother line was old Gelderlander and Groninger. Sandra was 1/2 TB but didnāt look it. I came across a photo of her and she was a tank. I got Sandra when she was 17 and my oldest daughter is 17.
Were she alive, sheād be 34. I have a Hanoverian mare, age 30, who is much more modern in type, even at her advanced age.
My understanding is that the Groniger horse was developed to till the heavier clay based soils of the more northern regions while the Gelders horses were bred in an area where the soil was lighter and more sandy. Farmers did not require as heavy a horse to till the lighter soils so they bred a lighter horse. The Groniger horses were accepted in the Gelders stud book so further back in a pedigree, you sometimes see Gelders horses with a Groniger parent. The Groniger breeders decided to maintain their own studbook http://www.hetgroningerpaard.nl while the Gelders horses were incorporated into the KWPN. Both the Gelders and Groniger horses were multipurpose horses, used for riding, driving and farm work.
The KWPN requires 75% of Gelders blood in order to register the horse as a Gelderlander (Basic) horse.
[QUOTE=Oakstable;5968695]
Idocus is not classified as Gelderlander. There are only the two.
My foundation Dutch mare was by Pericles xx Keur but the mother line was old Gelderlander and Groninger. Sandra was 1/2 TB but didnāt look it. I came across a photo of her and she was a tank. I got Sandra when she was 17 and my oldest daughter is 17.
Were she alive, sheād be 34. I have a Hanoverian mare, age 30, who is much more modern in type, even at her advanced age.[/QUOTE]
Of course Idocus is not classified as Gelderlander but are your sure he doesnāt have enough Gelder blood so the offspring of a gelder mare bred to him could not be accepted into the Gelder studbook? I would have think so but I might be wrong.
Maybe you can use an internet translation machine on some of this:
http://www.google.nl/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=nl&rlz=1R2RNQN_nlNL455&source=hp&q=groninger+paard+gelders+paard&rlz=1R2RNQN_nlNL455&pbx=1&oq=groninger+paard+gelders+paard&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=281l10391l0l11141l29l21l0l4l4l0l438l5515l0.4.12.4.1l24l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=fe2760ef46108b47&biw=1024&bih=540
Groningen en Gelderland are provinces just like Friesland is.
Pictures: http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&q=groninger+paard+gelders+paard&rlz=1R2RNQN_nlNL455&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=281l10391l0l11141l29l21l0l4l4l0l438l5515l0.4.12.4.1l24l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=540&wrapid=tlif132173065570310&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi
[QUOTE=b;5968835]
The Groniger breeders decided to maintain their own studbook http://www.hetgroningerpaard.nl while the Gelders horses were incorporated into the KWPN. Both the Gelders and Groniger horses were multipurpose horses, used for riding, driving and farm work.[/QUOTE]
I was surprised there was still breeders wanting to keep the Groninger alive because in 1969 the Groningen register (NWP) merged to form the Royal Warmblood Horse Studbook of the Netherlands as we know now.
Obviously some breeders refused to see the Groninger disapear and did their own association later on. However I find some of their stallions very different in type; they added some TB blood so do they really want to keep the true type alive? Anyway it is interesting.
I have a Dutch stallion book from 1984 with a lot of Groninger and Gelderlander pedigrees or such crosses and an explanation about the NSTg, GPS, VLN and NWP. It is a lot to translate but a bit of writing in English can be found here:http://www.sporthorse-breeder.com/cgi-bin/csArticles/articles/000007/000768.htm . Some people consider these the stars behind the KWPN: http://www.gelderlanderhorse.nl/nederlnd/De%20echte%20sterren%20achter%20het%20KWPN%20in%20Het%20Groninger%20Paard.htm
A piece about Gelderlanders: http://documents.plant.wur.nl/cgn/seminars/Themadag20091030/Fokkerij%20en%20biodiversiteit%20van%20het%20Gelderse%20Paard%20door%20de%20eeuwen%20heen.pdf
Idocus is a real Heinz 57 ā¦ some old Dutch blood, but also Selle Francis, Trakehner, Holsteiner, Hanoverian, Rhinelander ā¦
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/idocus
His son, Owillie, is classifed Gelderlander because of the dam, Rowillie.
Donāt forget Zoolog. He is 100% Gelderlander, and you can breed to him TODAY. My good friend has a gelding by Zoolog who is doing very well in the FEH (Eventing)
They have TONS of Zoolog straws, stillā¦so for folks here that love the Gelder blood - Iād HIGHLY recommend Zoolog.
He is a treasure of Gelderlander blood here in the US.
Here is a photo of my friendsā barely three year old (at the time) by Zoolog:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk150/elaineshickman/misc/DeficitSpendingScreenshotfromFEH.jpg
(the handler is 6ā 1.5" tallā¦the horse is 17.1 hands tall. Heās going to fill out and look like a different horse as he matures)
I love old-type Gelderlanders and Groningers, too! In general, Iāve always loved the āheavy coach horseā look and type. I know that isnāt ideal for modern Olympic disciplines, but it is something Iāve always loved.
Hi Everyone! Although this is a very old topic, I would like to try and get in touch with any of you, who know a lot about Gelders horses and/ or are still involved with them in the USA and Canada (or anywhere else).
I will introduce myself first. My name is Liz and I am from the Netherlands. I live in Arizona since July 2018, and will stay here for the next 4 years bc of my husbands job (Airforce). As a hobby and passion I have been doing photoshoots of Gelders horses a lot the past years. Also I did a big project with interviews and photoshoots last year, as sort of a ātributeā to the classical Dutch Warmblood. I visited many breeders of Gelders horses in the Netherlands for this project, which was amazing. They can all be seen on my website and FB page. www.lvws.jimdo.com.
Now that I am in the USA, I am trying to find out everything about the Gelders horses here. Some really important Gelders stallions were exported from the Netherlands in the past and there is still quite some offspring of them living here, I found out. I find it important that the Gelders horse doesnāt disappear due to ongoing modernization and for that reason I promote them and also try to find out if there is still frozen semen available or if there are stallions that carry valuable bloodlines.
I have a FB page called āKrachtpatsersā which I set up after my project last year. It turned out into a platform for people who love the Classical Dutch Warmbloods, of course the Gelders horses but also the classical type of Groningers and Harness horses. I would love to find more Gelders horses here and maybe even visit them for photoshoots and interviews. (Just to be clear: this is not advertising because I donāt do this as a job, it is a hobby, volunteer work 
