Grounding Deicers

[cocohooves]

I’ve never heard of grounding a deicer, but today, a friend’s horse was electrocuted by a water deicer. I don’t know what type of deicer or any additional details other than the horse died.

Being in Montana, aka Frigid Hellhole, USA, I have had a deicer plugged in since October with a heavy duty approx. 50-60 foot extension chord leading to the outlet. This is in a 100 gallon Rubbermaid water tank. The deicer itself is I believe to be a 1500 watt Farm Innovators-type. Link to what the deicer is here. For those unable to follow the link, it’s “plugged in” through the bottom drain hole, cord runs out the back, and it has a copper conductor controlled by thermostat. Only the copper conductor is really in the water.

Since the deicer is a couple years old and I don’t know its exact brand, I’m unsure of any instructions that accompany it other than what is on its possible Amazon listing (read: nothing valuable).

I know how to ground, but do I need to ground this particular deicer? What causes deicers to shock the water? From my internet browsing, cords were mentioned as a culprit; my deicer doesn’t have cords touching the water, so don’t know if that negates any possible shock issues.

Horses drink fine, deicer works fine, no issues. Simply wondering if there are any necessary precautions I should take to prevent any sort of tragedy.

Thanks in advance.

[csaper58]

If it is plugged into a GFCI outlet you should be OK. If not, have a GFCI outlet installed

Did the horse that died have access to an extension cord?

I know of a horse that was electrocuted when it chewed on an extension cord that was covered with hay when a barn worker tossed a flake on top of it.

Be sure the extension cord & de-icer cord is not frayed anywhere.

[cocohooves]

I believe (hope, rather) the outlet I have it plugged into is GFCI. I will make sure and check tomorrow. That’s good to know! Thank you.

I don’t know; the only details I know are that the horse was electrocuted. I have lots of questions that will likely not be answered for a long while, if at all. It’s not unlikely he did, though.

Yikes. It never occurred to me how much of a hazard cords could be. That definitely makes me shy away from floating deicers. The cords I have are in good condition and inaccessible to the horses.

Thanks again. This definitely eases my mind.

[goodhors]

Cords laying on wet ground can easily leak electricity into the ground. Plug ends are not waterproofed. A nick in cord insulation can leak electricity on to the wet/frozen dirt. You have rubber boots on the dirt/ground, don’t touch water to make yourself the electric ground like the drinking horse can touching all those places.

The heating element can fracture with hairline cracks to leak electric into the tank water. Really hard to find without disassembling the tank and heater. But horse gets shocked trying to drink, quits drinking.

We have de-icers and keep a sharp eye on horse water consumption all winter. When horses don’t drink, we first blame the de-icer and change it out for the spare we keep just for that. However some horses had a hard time trusting the tank again after getting shocked? They wanted bucket water in the barn so we worried they were getting enough.

We have snow and cold though not as bad as Montana. We now use insulated boxes around the tanks, unplug the de-icer when horses are outside. This totally removes live electric from the situation, no chance of shocking drinks now. Tanks stay thawed well, even on single digit days outside. We always bring horses in at night to be stalled. Then we cover tanks and plug in the heaters to run during the night hours, which are a cheaper rate for the high drawing heaters.

[clanter]

as a field test we always taught our service techs before reaching to touch any electrical device that they needed to brush the back of their hand over the device… it it was hot your hand would be basically blown away, if you were to have put your hand on it the muscles contract locking you to the device

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=clanter;9035942]
as a field test we always taught our service techs before reaching to touch any electrical device that they needed to brush the back of their hand over the device… it it was hot your hand would be basically blown away, if you were to have put your hand on it the muscles contract locking you to the device[/QUOTE]

“if you were to have put your hand on it the muscles contract locking you to the device”

Not to be snarky but this is a bit of “Hollywood”. It would be entirely dependent on a number of extreme and unlikely factors/situations. Especially working with, around 120.

I am not an “licensed” electrician but I have completely rewired, updated a number of my own houses. Barns and shop also. All to code and passed inspection. You do not have to be “licensed” to work on your own property in most states if not all.

Anybody that has worked with 120 residential wiring has been “shocked” at one time. I have and never have my " muscles contract locking you to the device"

They, I do quite the opposite, let go, dropped, jump back in a NY minute.

I find it hard to believe a horse wouldn’t do the same if a water tank became “hot” due to a short. Their muzzle sensory is much more acute than our hands. Much like our lips, tongues which is why touching a 9 volt battery with your fingers doesn’t give any effect. But when touched to lips or tongue the charge is easily felt. That how I “test” 9 volt batteries.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=csaper58;9035235]
If it is plugged into a GFCI outlet you should be OK. If not, have a GFCI outlet installed

Did the horse that died have access to an extension cord?

I know of a horse that was electrocuted when it chewed on an extension cord that was covered with hay when a barn worker tossed a flake on top of it.

Be sure the extension cord & de-icer cord is not frayed anywhere.[/QUOTE]

This is not entirely correct. Majority of people do not understand how GFs work. The are not designed nor intended to “trip” if a short is encountered. They can and do but not in all situations. It is not what they are designed for.

People should read up on their design, how they work and intended purpose.

No snark intended.

[Paige777]

The instructions that came with my de-icer said you should use a GFCI outlet, as well as run a copper wire from inside the tank out, down to a grounding rod. I was able to get 6 feet of copper wire at Home Depot for a few dollars.

[clanter]

I worked on electrical power panels and their safety officers told us to brush the backside of your hand over any object to make sure it was not hot, I will believe them over Hollywood or the internet. We worked with varying voltages up to 580VAC

But it isn’t voltage that kills, its amps. If it were voltage those electric fence charges would be call execution machines as most use 10,000 volts

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=gumtree;9036040]
This is not entirely correct. Majority of people do not understand how GFs work. The are not designed nor intended to “trip” if a short is encountered. They can and do but not in all situations. It is not what they are designed for.

People should read up on their design, how they work and intended purpose.

No snark intended.[/QUOTE]

I hope this link works.

When in doubt call an electrician out!

www.safeelectricity.org/information-center/library-of-articles/55-home-safety/317-ground-fault-circuit-interrupters-gfcis

[cocohooves]

I checked the outlet today, and it’s GFCI. Whether or not it works is beyond me, however! I’ll see about testing it tomorrow.

The most important issue I have is if this type of deicer in particular needs a grounding wire. I’ll likely see if I can get one in anyway, but with the ground frozen solid, I’m not exactly certain if that’s an attainable goal at the moment. Thus, whether or not it’s mandatory to ground the tank is priority.

Goodhors mentioned the copper filament of the heater cracking, which is a definite possibility. That’s the only way I can foresee electricity reaching the water, but I can most certainly be wrong. If that’s the case, I’ll look into grounding the tank.

It’s so bizarre to have something that used to be so menial suddenly be revealed to have such deadly potential. Holy moly.

[cocohooves]

Another question: I read something about metal tanks being safer in any electricity situations. Would I be better off getting a metal tank? The Rubbermaid is an absolute terror to clean, so I can’t say I’d miss it all that much :sadsmile:

Granted, I’m not sure if they have plugs for my type of deicer, so I’d have to get a more dangerous/generally annoying type. Just wondering if they’d be safer than a rubber tank, regardless of if I get one or not.

[Cedarwilliams]

Wouldn’t a rubber tank act as an insulator much like a car tire?

[draftdriver]

Surrounding the tank with rubber mats will help ensure safety. I have a double layer – top layer covers the joints in the bottom layer.

Most heaters say not to use extension cords. Come spring, get an electrician to run proper conduit to a GFI plug right beside the water tank.

[draftdriver]

Surrounding the tank with rubber mats will help ensure safety. I have a double layer – top layer covers the joints in the bottom layer.

Most heaters say not to use extension cords. Come spring, get an electrician to run proper conduit to a GFI plug right beside the water tank.