Hackamore advice needed

My draft x mare was the same. I rode her in a flower style hackamore most of the time but not in the hunt field. When hunting I used a waterford. Most of the time I could ride her on a loose rein, but I needed to know I could stop her.

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There is one thing about using any type of hackamore/nose control gear that has led me back to using bits.

The horses I ride, with the type of contact I use, “blow through/ignore” the noseband signals IF I try to keep steady contact like I do with a bit.

I have to use A LOT more “give and take” with the bitless bridles than I do with a bit, and I use a good deal of subtle “give and take” when I keep contact with the bit.

Another thing, I get the feeling from the horse that when I use LIGHT “give and take” with the bit that the horse and I are having a CONVERSATION with each of us contributing. When I use it with the hackamore/noseband I get the feeling from the horse of “this is really sort of irritating and I would prefer you not to do this!”, usually they say this politely.

But when I do not mend my ways the horse quickly ends up flinging its head in the air, or rooting down, or just LEANING on the noseband pressure.

I have to use LIGHTER contact with the hackamore/noseband gear to prevent these behaviors which are based on the horse’s face feeling irritated.

Everything is fine if I just use a sagging rein between rein aids, with IMMEDIATE release of the rein aids. When I have to do this most of my ride I really miss the subtle conversations the horse and I can have when I use a bit, conversations that only occur when the horse’s poll and jaw are relaxed, not braced. Also with the noseband I do not get to communicate with the horse’s tongue directly, thus missing the opportunity to use really subtle, light rein aids.

I can control horses fine with a hackamore/noseband type bridle. It is with the bit that I can also have the luxury of subtle, refined and nuanced conversations with the horse about our performance at the moment.

Some horses at times just don’t like something and if they tell us, we have to find other.
In continental Europe over half a century ago, we practically only used a snaffle and it was for us to learn to train and handle any horse with one, so we did.
Also for the track we had to switch to a snaffle, so that is what we use.

I hear you hunting, I was for a bit a honorary whipper-in and the conditions when hunting just were hard to replicate when training only.
Our staff horses were handpicked and extensively trained to make things easier.
Not so easy for the field, that many didn’t ride regularly or trained, just rode along.
Those horses took longer to get where they were dependably controlled as you wanted.

Could you compromise with her, find some bit that works for both of you while hunting?

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Oh sure I’ll keep trying to find something that works. She has a ton of fabulous attributes in the hunt field, but my hands and shoulders just can’t handle much pulling (sucks getting old!) so I’m hoping for a happy medium.

I’ve been using this bit with a french link mouthpiece and just one rein on the top ring, my next thing will be to add a second rein on a lower loop. Wonder Bit Smooth Copper BBR323 - MC Diamond Ranch

I’ve also ordered a regular gag bit with a happy mouth mouthpiece and we’ll give that a go as well.

Can you set her up with a snaffle of some sort under your hackamore? You could ride off the hackamore until you need a little more if she gets tough.

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There are “hackabits” and combination bits available. Never tried one but it might be a good solution.

You can even just use a bradoon hanger to set up a snaffle under the hackamore, if there is both a bit and a hackamore that the horse prefers. Sometime you need smaller rings on the snaffle, but it generally works well. It saves the search for and expense of finding a particular hackabit set up. :slight_smile:

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I did this for years, though it was a long-shanked hackamore with a curved shank, so the bit fit within the curve. While it’s a stronger hackamore setup than the OP seemed to be looking for, the bit offsets some of the severity (since you can’t just take a big pull on the hackamore rein without tanking on the mouth, too) and you can adjust the ratio of bit to hackamore depending on the relative lengths of your two sets of reins.

While it wasn’t a perfect setup since there were still some of the cons of the bit and the hackamore, it worked well for several years as a compromise for my mare.

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I’m not surprised to read this - as I recall, the mare I used this set up on was very similar to your horse in a lot of ways :laughing:

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