Hackamore advice needed

[2bayboys]

I have a mare that is very sensitive and fussy in her mouth with any contact. I’ve tried a million different bits and had her checked over from head to toe and she’s VERY sound but will get offended if you touch her mouth by chewing, gaping, flinging, yanking down etc. unless I ride with a loop in the reins. Circumstances often don’t allow that lol.

I recently experimented with a wagon wheel type hackamore and ta-da, mare is much happier. All of the offended behavior goes away even when taking a firm hold, but I have very little ability to rate her stride or make adjustments in front of a jump.

Suggestions on a different type of hackamore that gives me better control but keeps the Princess happy? I would eventually like to foxhunt in a hackamore if I can find the right piece of equipment.

Thanks!

[Djones]

If you don’t need a ton of whoa and want good lateral feel and bend, the little S is great.

[Scribbler]

Unfortunately the hackamore is a fairly blunt tool, it works great for Western where you ride off your seat and use light contact on a leverage bit. But you do not have the fine tuning of a snaffle.

[Arzny]

Snaffle and a hackamore. Double reins and you’ll be golden.

[Inimitable]

Oh hey, I have the same mare! Two suggestions: a seahorse hackamore (I use it with a fleece noseband). It gives a tiny bit more leverage than the wagon wheel or flower hack, but still keeps my princess happy. https://www.farmhousetack.com/products/nunn-finer-seahorse-hackamore?variant=34488495734933&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIleHIoImSggMVzEByCh13bgLVEAQYASABEgLD2fD_BwE

I’ve recommended this several times lately, but it has truly been magical for my bit-hating mare: https://www.etsy.com/listing/723613283/bridle-less-bit?click_key=333059ffb9198e102a92bfceb24c221422fd01fe%3A723613283&click_sum=4b1dc865&ref=shop_home_active_24&frs=1&bes=1&sts=1 She goes the best in this, even better than the hackamore. I mostly use it with a headstall, but sometimes we feel spicy and go bridleless.

We do everything in one of these two set-ups (jumpers, hunter pacing, etc). I tried the snaffle/hackamore combo and it was just too much input for my mare - less is more for her.

[NancyM]

I did jump my mare around in a little S hackamore at one show, with a “snaffle” rein on the top part of the S, to reduce the pressure of the curb effect. It was ok, better than without it. A bit better steering. I also padded the top part of the nose, over the bridge of the nose, again to reduce the bite of the leverage. You could try that, see how it works for you. But I ended up in a simple pulley gag with two reins for her. Pressure split between the bars and the corners instead on just the bars as with a regular snaffle. She also preferred stainless steel over nickle mouthpiece. Believe me… I was TOLD. I just do as I am told by the one who gives the orders.

[Scribbler]

@Inimitable

Oh hey, I have the same mare! Two suggestions: a seahorse hackamore (I use it with a fleece noseband). It gives a tiny bit more leverage than the wagon wheel or flower hack, but still keeps my princess happy. https://www.farmhousetack.com/products/nunn-finer-seahorse-hackamore?variant=34488495734933&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIleHIoImSggMVzEByCh13bgLVEAQYASABEgLD2fD_BwE

I’ve recommended this several times lately, but it has truly been magical for my bit-hating mare: https://www.etsy.com/listing/723613283/bridle-less-bit?click_key=333059ffb9198e102a92bfceb24c221422fd01fe%3A723613283&click_sum=4b1dc865&ref=shop_home_active_24&frs=1&bes=1&sts=1 She goes the best in this, even better than the hackamore. I mostly use it with a headstall, but sometimes we feel spicy and go bridleless.

We do everything in one of these two set-ups (jumpers, hunter pacing, etc). I tried the snaffle/hackamore combo and it was just too much input for my mare - less is more for her.

That’s a basic sidepull. You can do quite a bit with this but if you have a horse that runs through it, not much control.

[Inimitable]

It’s not a side pull. It’s a meroth. The leather piece goes in the mouth: it’s essentially a strap around their jaw. My mare loves it.

Edited to add: I tried a side pull when I first made the decision to go bitless with her. Had to run her into the wall to get her to stop. Lol. Next time I used it was on a baby I had been starting in a halter, who has an excellent “whoa.” Came off and got a gnarly concussion. Nothing to do with the side pull, but needless to say it has been collecting dust ever since.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I have MS.

I have experimented with around 6 bitless options (3 cross-unders. jumping cavesson, the “wagon wheel” and the Light Rider bitless bridle). You see I was riding this older Arabian mare with the most sensitive mouth I ever met up with in over 50 years of riding. whose training had gaping holes deeper than the Grand Canyon.

At first I got decent results bitless with this mare, but only if I used the lightest contact or sagging reins with the bitless.

As the months went by the Light Rider bitless bridle was her favorite but, using eloquent “sign language” she finally got through to me that her nasal bone was MORE SENSITIVE than her extremely sensitive mouth.

When I got further into the proper timing of my rein aids this mare convinced me to go back to the snaffle (with my riding teacher’s permission.) Once I learned to time my rein aids so I never blocked the horse’s movement she was pretty content with a snaffle bit.

With EVERY horse I tried the modern bitless bridles with I ended up having to use LIGHTER rein aids with the bitless than using the snaffle. Also, whenever I had to take a hard hold with the bitless bridles I had BIG problems controlling the horse’s speed (I felt like I was being pulled by a locomotive.)

IF I ever decide to use bitless again my go to would be the Light Rider bitless bridle (a modified Scawbrig.) If I would need more control I would use one of the cross-unders, always, always, always remembering that a lot of horses’ nasal bones are more sensitive that the bars of their mouths.

I have Multiple Sclerosis, my hands are not anywhere near perfect (that is why I thought the horses I ride would prefer bitless), my balance is horrible, and I often have problems with coordination. Even with all my physical problems the lesson horses I ride prefer I use bits.

So nowadays I ride with a double bridle. The lesson horses, who had never had a double bridle used on them, relax and calmly get down to work.

I am a big believer now in double bridles. I keep the curb reins sagging some, tweaking them at the proper time of the horses’ strides. it if I think the horse needs just a tiny bit more emphasis.

I have introduced several horses to the double bridle at my lesson stable. At first I had to go through some rather delicate negotiations with my riding teacher (she does not want her lesson horses abused after all), but now she does assume that the next time she changes my lesson horse I will want to ride it in my double bridle (I use my own bridle.)

In Great Britain for many, many decades a double bridle was used on many horses by adult fox-hunters. For a while it was assumed that a person riding to hounds used a double bridle.

With the really sensitive mouthed horses I have to start riding them in the snaffle with a feeling that I am trying to keep contact with an easily breakable COBWEB, maybe as little as one gram of weight or less. Once I get the horse’s relaxation (mouth, neck, poll) I can gradually increase the weight of my contact but I rarely use more than an ounce or two of weight for contact with the bit (lighter with the bitless!) When the horses speed up they increase the contact on their own (yes I use my legs). When the horse dictates the strength of contact with the bit they are often much more responsive to the rein aids.

Even when I am keeping contact with a “cobweb”.

[Djones]

Side pulls seem to be best set quite low and snug. Otherwise … good luck unless it’s weak in the neck!

[RedHorses]

This is correct IF you can’t be bothered to train the use. of the hackamore the same way we train the use of the bit.

It is possible to ride on contract with a hackamore. It is possible to have the finesse in communication to be able to train Second Level dressage (I’m sure it could be used to train to higher levels as well, but I actually did train Second Level with mine). It is not going to happen without purposefully training the subtleties of the rein aids on the hackamore.

It’s not the same as switching to a new bit. Choose a hackamore and do the training.

But I did buy a seahorse hackamore because it’s more elegant than this

Metalab Short Shank English Hackamore W/ Chain

which I used for years. I did swap the chain curb for a plain leather one, and make a leather padded nose strap that’s nicer than the fleece.

[Inimitable]

I feel dumb. It never even occurred to me to attach a “snaffle” rein and ride with double reins. This is kind of brilliant and I think my mare might dig it. Can’t wait to try it!

[Bogie]

@2bayboys

I would eventually like to foxhunt in a hackamore if I can find the right piece of equipment.

I had a gelding with a big tongue and a low palate, which made most bits uncomfortable. When I hunted him (first flight) I used an LG hackamore (like a wheel or daisy) set for a small amount of leverage but also added a running martingale. That did the trick for him. I also trained with verbal slow down cues, which helped.

[2bayboys]

I’m going to try this in third field on Thursday. Wish me luck

[Inimitable]

Been there, done that - lived to tell the tale. It’ll be great! Have fun!

[Go_Fish]

Low palate would be my guess. I had a gelding with this issue. A Myler Level 1 D ring was the solution.

[Bogie]

@Go_Fish

Low palate would be my guess.

Yup. Luckily, since we foxhunted, I was able to switch him to bitless and he was so happy!

[2bayboys]

Well the flower hackamore was not a success foxhunting. Mare loved it lol but she ended up just leaning and pulling so my shoulders were a wreck by the end of the day. Nothing dangerous but I’d like a bit more control when galloping. On to the next idea!

[Bluey]

@2bayboys

Well the flower hackamore was not a success foxhunting. Mare loved it lol but she ended up just leaning and pulling so my shoulders were a wreck by the end of the day. Nothing dangerous but I’d like a bit more control when galloping. On to the next idea!

Sorry, any hackamore a “horse will run thru it” if the concept is not clear to the rider and previous training is not in place.
Consider that we start colts, many big TB race colts, with our little grass nose hackamores and they are fine to control, don’t run off with us, even when galloping at some speed, so they work.

We start when halter breaking, asking them to respond to guidance thru a halter.
Then on the ground we reinforce and refine with our hackamore, teaching them with little tiny tugs, to listen and respond, before we even get on.
Once a colt is understanding guidance with one from the ground, that translates to once we are on their backs.
Even when they have a bad moment and would rather take off, those little tugs on a hackamore, NEVER a steady pull until “she ended up just leaning and pulling so my shoulders were a wreck by the end of the day”.
That is terrible, dangerous if you don’t have some control, scary, really.

I started riding as a kid before I had a saddle or bridle, using a string flat woven halter, so was familiar with how to guide horses without a bit, but had to teach many that started riding with bits to use hackamores, they truly require different skills.

Do consider trying slow, at the walk, in a small space, riding using that hackamore where you never pull, until the horse understands well that you are making fine requests, that demand it’s attention and soft responses.
Don’t forget all other aids, especially your seat and balance on the saddle is also communicating with a horse, use that to help get it’s attention and listen for other aids from you.

When you are familiar with those concepts, you will feel like you now have power steering installed in your skills.
Once you can use a hackamore properly, using bits will also become way lighter than you may have thought before.

Now, there are some horses that hackamores are not the better tool for them, bits are.
Your horse may be one of those less sensitive souls, or the rare bronky ranch horse may have been poorly trained and ended running thru a hackamore.
Today that is rare, most western riders have caught on best hackamore uses if the didn’t know before, we are in the information age and knowledge is easy to acquire.
Many English riders have not been using hackamores long enough to really know yet best techniques.

If your horse is happy with your hackamore, or try other types if your intent is going bitless, try some training first for a bit, see if she becomes a little more controllable once in the field?
Maybe that kind of hackamore was not the best for you both there, as you think.

[2bayboys]

Thanks Bluey. I have been riding in the hackamore on this mare for quite a while in the ring, where it works beautifully. No pulling, easy steering, happy mare. Also out on trails trotting and cantering, and again no problems. It’s a little hard to duplicate the conditions in the hunt field without actually hunting, so training for it is tricky.

I’ll keep using and refining the understanding of the hackamore in the ring as the mare likes it and goes well in it, but I think the conditions in the hunt field probably won’t have her going well in it there.