I have a 9 yo TWH that seems uncomfortable with every bit that I try. I am considering trying a Hackamore or a bitless bridle. Both seem like they would be reasonable choices. This horse is a seasoned trail horse and that is all I do with him but I think he would be so much better if he wasn’t so concerned with the bit in his mouth, Does anyone have experience with these options and recommendations of one over the other? Thanks
When have his teeth been examined? Could something there be bothering him?
It sounds like he responds respectfully to the bit, but just doesn’t like it - correct?
I’m all about using what the horse likes best (provided there is not a pain reason or a training reason). And some just do prefer bitless.
In the winter, I ride my horses in a Little S Hackamore because I don’t have to fuss with warming a cold bit. Out of the hackamores, that would be my favorite one.
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Yes, he had his teeth floated in September and all was OK then. He does respond to the bit OK but just spends so much time “chewing” on it and stretching his head down to the ground that he doesn’t pay as much attention to me or his surroundings. I really want to try a Hackamore…will check this one out. Thanks
I had this problem too my mare hated all the bits I tried and I went to an S hackamore and she was great in it and i still use it on her today! Turned out she had a nerve problem in her mouth but was fine as long as there wasnt a bit in her mouth 
I looked at some S Hackamores online today. Looks like they come with either a leather nose band or a “rope” looking band. I imagine the leather band is less severe?
I rode this horse today with this bit
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007T8OOJE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
and he exhibited his normal “chewing” and chomping. When we got back to the trailer, I loosened the straps on the headstall to lessen the tension on the bit and he stopped “chewing” right away. I left it that way for about ten minutes while I did a few other things and he seemed much happier with it than before. It was not tight before I loosened it, There were no wrinkles in the corner of his mouth…but for him, maybe it was too tight. I’ll try it this way next time we take a short ride and see how he acts.
Still think a Hackamore is worth trying.
Thanks for the inputs.
Terminology problem here…what are you calling a hackamore and what are you including in the term bitless? Do you mean a sidepull, mechanical hackamore or bosal?
The bit in your photo looks uncomfortable IMO. It is one of those “bastard” bits that has a snaffle mouthpiece with curb shanks. The action of the jointed mouthpiece is negatively affected by the shanks; the shanks’ action is negatively affected by the nutcracker action of the single-joint mouthpiece.
I am glad your horse seemed more comfortable once you repositioned the bit in his mouth. An actual snaffle bit is often correctly positioned when there is a wrinkle or two in the corner of the mouth, but I believe in some western disciplines the bit is placed without wrinkles. A real curb bit should sit lower in the mouth than a snaffle.
Since the bit in the photo is neither snaffle nor curb, I have no idea how it should be placed.
Have you ever tried a snaffle on your horse? Or a curb? Contrary to some opinion, a gaited horse does not “need” a walking horse bit to gait.
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The bit in the Amazon link above is a curb bit. The definition of a curb bit does not refer to the mouth piece but the shanks. It is a fairly gentle bit in the correct hands. Have you tried him in a snaffle bit to see what his reaction is to that? Has a vet thoroughly examined his mouth to see if there is a anomaly that gives him issues with the bit?
I ride my older horses in something called an Ogden Loping Hackamore. They respond well in it and it works for us. You can get the noseband in different widths which gives you different levels on severity.
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I hear you.
I too have a horse you can do a whole reining pattern without anything, no bridle or even a string around the neck, he is that broke to seat and leg. Most finished reiners are like that.
One reason we use those hackamores also is that you can tie with them without worrying about the bit or reins or the horse’s mouth if they happen to wiggle around for any reason and hit the end of the rein, especially young ones.
I don’t know if those types of hackamores would work for the OP, without someone showing her how to handle a horse in those.
Probably a mechanical hackamore like the little S or beetle would work better.
Yes, the rope nose is going to have more “bite” if engaged. As with anything, the tool is only as harsh as the hands behind it. My Little S Hack does have a rope nose. It’s never left a mark on my horse’s noses but I’m also very light with my hands, and my horses are light and responsive.
What other bits have you tried?
Now, that bit design is NOT one of my favorites – that’s a pretty long shank. Personally, I am not a fan of mouthpieces that have single joints. I much like double joints better, and have had better luck with that.
I also probably ride with my bits looser than most. I usually don’t have a wrinkle in my horse’s mouths at all - even with snaffles. I want my horse to carry the bit themselves, and I also want them to have relief.
So obviously your horse was telling you he did like the bit looser than what you started with … but I personally think you probably could find better choices for him too. Again, would be curious to know what else you have tried.
I believe the bit in the picture is more like a Billy Allen. It doesn’t have a joint in the center. The sides can rotate independently, but cannot bend. Don’t own one, but that is the way it was described to me.
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Thanks for the inputs. To answer a few of the questions:
Yes, the Vet has examined his mouth for any cuts, previous damage etc that might cause him pain. So far he seems fine.
I have tried a curb bit with a snaffle mouth piece originally because that is what I rode him with before I bought him last May. I have had other horses that did not like snaffle mouth pieces, so I was not reluctant to try something else when he seemed to be uncomfortable with it.
GhR009 described the bit I showed the link to accurately. My other horse (who also didn’t like the snaffle) settled in with this bit the first time I used it on him. He is also a TWH and gaits nicely with this bit.
I’m certainly willing to try other bits, but not sure where to start. With the price of some of the bits being very high, I don’t need a shelf in the barn full of bits that DIDN’T work. I imagine if I try it bit, it is used and can’t be returned. I have spent quite a bit of time reading about bits and watching a few YouTube videos, so I think I could make a reasonable start at this, but if anyone has any recommendations or suggestions, I’d really appreciate it.
I will probably get a Hackamore to try also.
That bit in the picture is called a “broken mouth curb”. The snaffle works with no curb action, if there’s a shank, it’s not a snaffle. Snaffles may have a jointed mouthpiece or a solid one, even a port but never have curb shanks.
Likewise a curb bit may have a jointed mouthpiece but if it’s got shanks, it works on a different principle then a snaffle with no shank or curb chain/strap.if it has multiple joints, it’s still a curb.
Makes it easier to understand the terminology. Speaking of which, I hear hack bit and think no mouthpiece.
There is no such thing as a “snaffle mouth piece.” Snaffle and Curb refer to the rings/shanks.
A snaffle is a bit with no leverage (egg-butt, full cheek, loose ring, D, etc.)
A curb is a bit with leverage (Kimberwicke, Pelham, shanked, etc.).
The mouth piece can be mullen (solid and straight), ported (solid with a bend in the middle), single joint, double joint, multiple joint (Waterford) on both a snaffle or a curb, they are unrelated.
I agree with the poster that stated they don’t care for a broken mouth piece with such long shanks, and I’ll add that basically any horse I’ve ridden in a western bit preferred it to be mullen or ported. But I guess this bit isn’t broken, but the sides can rotate? Interesting.
As others said, it sounds like your bit was placed too high, glad you have that sorted out. I believe usually shank bits are supposed to sit lower in the mouth than a snaffle.
I’m curious as to if you’re using the bit too much? So many times I see people using a shank bit without knowing its true purpose and how to use it properly, because they have this notion that if you’re riding in a western saddle you MUST use a shank curb bit. It just isn’t true, it’s perfectly acceptable to ride in a western saddle and use a snaffle bit. You’re not supposed to use a shank bit the same way you use a snaffle, and a horse should not be in a shank bit until it is well-trained to neck reining. If you’re just trail riding and your horse is well trained, you really have no reason to need a curb bit at all. Just put a nice simple snaffle on him and call it a day. My favorite go-to bit is a lozenge Egg-butt:
https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/jp…RoCbAoQAvD_BwE
If you really want a shank curb bit, a basic grazing bit is always a good place to start:
https://www.tackwholesale.com/stainl…BoCXC4QAvD_BwE
Little S hackamores that you’ve already looked up are good, or a basic Mechanical hackamore:
https://www.chicksaddlery.com/kelly-…ined-hackamore
Or there’s always a good old side pull:
https://www.sstack.com/Billy-Royal-T…BoCGTgQAvD_BwE
mmeqcenter: Thanks for the education, I really appreciate it. I have not been able to find much online about bits and the little bit I have found has been contradictory. Also, thanks for providing the links to the bits that you recommend. That helps a lot.
I rode this horse yesterday with the same bit I showed in a prior post with it sitting lower in his mouth than before. He did better but still seemed to be biting on the bit way too much. I have a curb with a mullen that I can try soon but think I will see what the local stores have or order some of your suggestions to try. next.
If I was going to try hackamore or side pull…which one would it make sense to try first? This guy is a seasoned trail horse, but I have only had him about six months, so I don’t have full confidence in him yet. He is a TWH and has nice gaits that he will do with very little encouragement.
Thanks again for your inputs.
How about trying your questions in the Trail forum?
This ^^^ Thank you.
I am also not a fan of the type of bit the OP linked to. I know that there are some who will disagree, but IMO, a person needs to pick one. It’s either going to be a solid, one-piece curb or some sort of snaffle.
It’s all about communication. The action of either one is so different, and when they are combined, as in the one linked to, it can only cause the horse to have trouble understanding. In one of those “bastard” bits, every time he moves the side pieces rattle around. Again, IMO, this impeeds communication. In a solid-type curb, when the rider moves the one hand left or right, this causes a small movement of the bit in the horse’s mouth that the horse notices, and he is able to easily understand what is being asked and can then move out on loose rein.
Just my 2¢
You could try either first, but I would recommend doing it in a ring or round pen. Whenever I make a change like this my biggest concern is my horse’s whoa. As long as I have a good stop consistently, then we work our way out to the trails.
Several posters here have misidentified the bit in the picture. It is not a “broken mouth curb,” it does not have a snaffle mouthpiece, and it is not one of those “‘bastard’ bits that has a snaffle mouthpiece with curb shanks.”
It’s a Robart’s pinchless bit. It’s actually designed to work sort of like the Myler bits. That’s a bushing in the center so that the two sides work independently. Pull on one rein and the shank on that side rotates independently. Pull on both reins and it acts like a solid mouthpiece, just like GhR009 said.
It’s not a bad mouthpiece, in my opinion. It provides a bit of tongue relief because of the curved profile. I’m not a fan of the long shanks, though.
chipper2128, I once bought a mule who was very fussy in the mouth. I switched to a Dr. Cook’s bitless bridle for about a year, then started bim back in a Happy Mouth double jointed roller mouth snaffle, which he worked well in.
I don’t think the Dr. Cook’s is the miracle bridle Dr. Cook and many of his devotees claim it to be, but it can be a useful tool. And, you might be able to pick up a used one for fairly cheap.
I wouldn’t use an S hack unless your horse is already well trained and responsive. It’s fairly easy for a strong-minded equine to just bull through it. I speak from personal unpleasant experience. Ditto sidepulls. cutter99’s advice to try anything in an enclosed space first is good.
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