Half pad for sensitive back - dressage

[HorseBuff]

My 5 1/2 yo has recently gotten a very sore back after her last saddle fitting a couple of weeks ago. The pain is right in the middle where I sit. Thankfully her spine feels good. Vet feels the saddle fit is most likely the cause of soreness, as does my trainer.

The fitter will be out to reassess and a new saddle will be ordered as my old one just isn’t quite right anymore. The fitter said it isn’t terrible, but a new one would be a good idea. I tried some new saddles and found one that works for both of us. Unfortunately, it won’t be here until January.

The vet said she was a 7/8 out of ten for soreness. She’s on Bute and a muscle relaxer for the next few weeks. She’ll have a week off then gradual back to work over the following 2 weeks.

I ride her 3x per week, two 30 min. lessons of w/t and one low key ride that usually includes a hack around the farm or short trail ride (weather permitting). I didn’t ride her any more or less during that time since her last fitting.

While we wait for the new saddle to arrive, I’m looking for the best option for a half pad to help cushion her back until the new saddle is here (2 months out). I have a Thinline half pad (the shim-able style), a Bartl sheepskin half pad, and a B Vertigo Lexington dressage saddle pad that has a nice thick gel pad built in. I’m open to buying something else if it’ll help her sensitive back.

Thoughts on what I have for pads and if anything might work better? She’s a 3/4 Friesian, 1/4 Paint if that helps at all.

[beowulf]

Have you been using the TL? The Thinline will help with impact absorption, but if the saddle is causing the mare soreness, it won’t help – if anything, it might make it worse.

Not to be that person but for the amount of work she is in, it might be worth investigating another cause for the back-soreness. Riding 3x a week, with no cantering or serious work, and such a strong pain marker (7/8 out of 10?) would have me wondering if maybe she has something else going on. Kissing spine and being stalled both come to mind.

In the mean-time, you mentioned she was on relaxer – probably methocarbamol? I’ve had good luck keeping them on that for more than a month if they have overall soreness. You might want to supplement with a pro/prebiotic if she is getting bute.

As someone who was in a similar situation, is there a way you can trial this saddle before committing to a brand new one? Sometimes a new saddle will temporarily feel better for the horse as it doesn’t target the previously sore areas, but over time, it will start to cause pain to previously non-sore muscles. Usually riding in it for a month or two is a good litmus test to whether or not the saddle is comfortable for the horse.

[Guyot]

If your saddle fits and you have done all the medical support to help her current sore back. Do not use a half pad. Unless you have had the new saddle fitted with the intent to always ride with a pad. That all said, sheepskin has always been the best bet for sore backs.

Laser therapy and or magnawave really help get the muscles to relax. Like everything else tho the success of each is in the expertise of the Practicioner.

[IPEsq]

Can you lease a demo saddle in the meantime? It really depends on what is wrong with your saddle whether a half pad can help, for example by correcting balance or shimming hollow areas. If something about your saddle is too tight, adding padding will just make it worse.

That is a lot of soreness for that level of work. I would be suspicious also there is something in addition to saddle fit going on.

[Scribbler]

If the saddle is making her back hurt then you do not ride in that saddle whether that means not riding at all or borrowing a better saddle.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹
how much do you understand about saddle fit dynamics and this particular saddle problem? I would hazard a guess that if she is sore under the rider the panels are too curved back to front for her and hence a big pressure point under the rider. This is not something that pads or shims will help. It is a basic mismatch between tree and horse.

Shim pads are very useful if the either gullet is too wide or the horse has a sway back. They can’t compensate for a banana tree on a straight backed horse.

Neither can a comfort pad. You can’t alter fit without a shim pad.

Do you know specifically how the saddle is wrong for this horse? If so tell us and we might have shimming ideas if I am wrong in my armchair diagnosis.

Realize too that when you get your new saddle she will still be sore from the bad saddle possibly for weeks or months depending on the damage.

My response would be to keep all saddles off her for at least 2 or 3 weeks and get a body worker in to check and do rehab once a week. Then maybe you will start with a clean slate when the new saddle arrives. If she doesn’t show improvement with nonriding time then yes I would start to pursue a vet diagnosis and radiography imaging.

While she is off work you can do a lot of inhsnd work start lateral work on hand which strengthens the belly and lifts the back.

[HorseBuff]

@beowulf

Have you been using the TL? The Thinline will help with impact absorption, but if the saddle is causing the mare soreness, it won’t help – if anything, it might make it worse.

Not to be that person but for the amount of work she is in, it might be worth investigating another cause for the back-soreness. Riding 3x a week, with no cantering or serious work, and such a strong pain marker (7/8 out of 10?) would have me wondering if maybe she has something else going on. Kissing spine and being stalled both come to mind.

In the mean-time, you mentioned she was on relaxer – probably methocarbamol? I’ve had good luck keeping them on that for more than a month if they have overall soreness. You might want to supplement with a pro/prebiotic if she is getting bute.

As someone who was in a similar situation, is there a way you can trial this saddle before committing to a brand new one? Sometimes a new saddle will temporarily feel better for the horse as it doesn’t target the previously sore areas, but over time, it will start to cause pain to previously non-sore muscles. Usually riding in it for a month or two is a good litmus test to whether or not the saddle is comfortable for the horse.

Good thoughts!

I’ve used a Thinline Comfort pad the whole time but not the one that comes with shims. I had the vet out and this is what she thought. If she’s still sore after the fitter comes then I’ll have them out again. She was not sore along her spin. Yes on the methocarbamol. Vet has her on it for 3 weeks. She’s already on a probiotic.

She’s out full days. I’ll have to ask about options if the new saddle is an issue after a couple of months. I don’t know of any places that let you trial more than 7 days.

[HorseBuff]

@IPEsq

Can you lease a demo saddle in the meantime? It really depends on what is wrong with your saddle whether a half pad can help, for example by correcting balance or shimming hollow areas. If something about your saddle is too tight, adding padding will just make it worse.

That is a lot of soreness for that level of work. I would be suspicious also there is something in addition to saddle fit going on.

Saddle was fine until the last fitting. Her shoulders are getting bigger so we need to get a different saddle with a tree that fits better. The fitter did adjust it so it sat further on her back because she wanted it off her shoulder. It’s not beyond the T18 but I wonder if it’s balance is now messed up. One thing she didn’t do is watch me ride after. She uses one of the thermo image and the saddle is balanced to my horse but maybe not to me on my horse.

[HorseBuff]

@Scribbler

If the saddle is making her back hurt then you do not ride in that saddle whether that means not riding at all or borrowing a better saddle.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹
how much do you understand about saddle fit dynamics and this particular saddle problem? I would hazard a guess that if she is sore under the rider the panels are too curved back to front for her and hence a big pressure point under the rider. This is not something that pads or shims will help. It is a basic mismatch between tree and horse.

Shim pads are very useful if the either gullet is too wide or the horse has a sway back. They can’t compensate for a banana tree on a straight backed horse.

Neither can a comfort pad. You can’t alter fit without a shim pad.

Do you know specifically how the saddle is wrong for this horse? If so tell us and we might have shimming ideas if I am wrong in my armchair diagnosis.

Realize too that when you get your new saddle she will still be sore from the bad saddle possibly for weeks or months depending on the damage.

My response would be to keep all saddles off her for at least 2 or 3 weeks and get a body worker in to check and do rehab once a week. Then maybe you will start with a clean slate when the new saddle arrives. If she doesn’t show improvement with nonriding time then yes I would start to pursue a vet diagnosis and radiography imaging.

While she is off work you can do a lot of inhsnd work start lateral work on hand which strengthens the belly and lifts the back.

Thank you. The area where the tree points are are not parallel to her as they should be. They are out instead of parallel. Her shoulders are filling in, too. The rest seems to be OK per the fitter. It is an adjustable gullet but she didn’t change that at all. She thought the saddle was sitting too far forward so adjusted it so it was further back (but not beyond the T18). The saddle was balanced for the horse (thermo image) but she didn’t watch me ride. It did feel like it put me in more in a chair position.

Her Chiro is coming on Sunday and will also do Acupuncture. We have someone who comes in to do PEMF who I’ll have work on her as well.

[HorseBuff]

@IPEsq

Can you lease a demo saddle in the meantime? It really depends on what is wrong with your saddle whether a half pad can help, for example by correcting balance or shimming hollow areas. If something about your saddle is too tight, adding padding will just make it worse.

That is a lot of soreness for that level of work. I would be suspicious also there is something in addition to saddle fit going on.

I was supposed to demo a saddle this week. The one I’ll most likely order was available but won’t be by the time I can ride again. I plan on trying it again once her back is better to make sure she is happy with it.

[Scribbler]

@HorseBuff

Thank you. The area where the tree points are are not parallel to her as they should be. They are out instead of parallel. Her shoulders are filling in, too. The rest seems to be OK per the fitter. It is an adjustable gullet but she didn’t change that at all. She thought the saddle was sitting too far forward so adjusted it so it was further back (but not beyond the T18). The saddle was balanced for the horse (thermo image) but she didn’t watch me ride. It did feel like it put me in more in a chair position.

Her Chiro is coming on Sunday and will also do Acupuncture. We have someone who comes in to do PEMF who I’ll have work on her as well.

Do you mean that viewed from the front, the gullet of the saddle has a wider flare than the flare of the horses withers? This suggests that the gullet is too wide for the horse.

Can’t you get the fitter out again to retweak this saddle while you wait for your new saddle?

[HorseBuff]

@Scribbler

Do you mean that viewed from the front, the gullet of the saddle has a wider flare than the flare of the horses withers? This suggests that the gullet is too wide for the horse.

Can’t you get the fitter out again to retweak this saddle while you wait for your new saddle?

She’s coming out on the 31st. It’s an adjustable gullet so that part could be adjusted. It doesn’t sit on her withers though, I know that can cause a lot of problems.

The vet said I can ride her after a week, which would be Saturday, but I think I should wait until the fitter can come back out.

[sheltona01]

It sounds like the saddle is too wide and yes that can cause the middle of the back to get very sore. Basically it acts like a rocking chair over the area causing more pressure in a smaller area.

It is never a complete saddle fitting until you watch the horse being ridden. Too many things change between the static and the dynamic fit.

Also thermography has been proven not be an accurate tool for saddle fitting. It is effected by too many variables to give a great reading in an uncontrol environment, ie barn.

[Scribbler]

@HorseBuff

She’s coming out on the 31st. It’s an adjustable gullet so that part could be adjusted. It doesn’t sit on her withers though, I know that can cause a lot of problems.

The vet said I can ride her after a week, which would be Saturday, but I think I should wait until the fitter can come back out.

If the saddle is making her sore then it’s foolish to ride her again in the same saddle.

Good point above about the wide gullet affecting fit over the back. How competent is your saddle fitter? Are they independently trained or just a company rep? And if they are using infrared tech then that is only meaningful after you have ridden in the saddle.

[HorseBuff]

@Scribbler

If the saddle is making her sore then it’s foolish to ride her again in the same saddle.

Good point above about the wide gullet affecting fit over the back. How competent is your saddle fitter? Are they independently trained or just a company rep? And if they are using infrared tech then that is only meaningful after you have ridden in the saddle.

She’s very reputable (not a rep) but it does bother me that she has never watched me ride in my saddle, with this horse or my previous mare. I’ve used 2 others (one independent and one rep) and both have watched me ride.

[HorseBuff]

@sheltona01

It sounds like the saddle is too wide and yes that can cause the middle of the back to get very sore. Basically it acts like a rocking chair over the area causing more pressure in a smaller area.

It is never a complete saddle fitting until you watch the horse being ridden. Too many things change between the static and the dynamic fit.

Also thermography has been proven not be an accurate tool for saddle fitting. It is effected by too many variables to give a great reading in an uncontrol environment, ie barn.

Thank you for your feedback!

When you say too wide, do you mean side to side, so the panels underneath are too wide, or the length from front to back?

And maybe a couple of stupid questions but is tree size the same as gullet size? Does length of tree play a role or is that determined by the seat size?

[Scribbler]

@HorseBuff

Thank you for your feedback!

When you say too wide, do you mean side to side, so the panels underneath are too wide, or the length from front to back?

And maybe a couple of stupid questions but is tree size the same as gullet size? Does length of tree play a role or is that determined by the seat size?

Oh dearie, no no no. There are lots of good web sites on basic saddle fitting. Even Schleese has good basics. Sounds like you could do with a fast round of self education about now.

In a nutshell every brand of saddle has its own measurements for what is a narrow medium and wide wither gullet. Plus different brands have different amounts of flare to the wither gullet for instance A frame or U frame. Plus the length of the gullet and placement of the points of the tree at the gullets are different brand to brand. No standardization.

This is totally independent of the tree size and shape which is why you can switch gullets in a Thoroughgood or pad up the withers in a normal saddle with shims or sheepskin. Or put your Schleese in a saddle press that alters both width and angle of the wither gullet.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Seat size is about how the seat fits the rider. I have never investigated but my guess is you do not get an incrementally longer tree at each half inch increase in seat size. The tree is already buried well within the saddle so I think you could build a seat size 17, 17.5, or 18 on the same tree. Maybe a saddle fitter can chime in to verify here.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Missing from your query is the very important question of how the panels are configured. Just as important as wither gullet is the front to back curve of the panels which is determined by the tree but can be tweaked with flocking. If the panels are too flat for the horse the saddle will bridge and if they are too curved the panels will rock and make the back sore. Bridging can be addressed in a pinch with a pad shimmed in the center, I am using one now on an Old Lady whose back has fallen in a bit.

Another aspect of panel fit is the drape down the sides, whether the saddle is too steep or too shallow for the horses back.

None of these points about panel configuration have standard measurements or terms. We find out through experience which brands tend to fit our own horse.

As you can see altering the wither gullet does not change the curve and drape of the panels so it is only one part of the fitting question.

Anyhow I recommend looking up some of the very good online resources that will have photos and videos to explain more thoroughly what I have tried to say here.

[HorseBuff]

@Scribbler

Oh dearie, no no no. There are lots of good web sites on basic saddle fitting. Even Schleese has good basics. Sounds like you could do with a fast round of self education about now.

In a nutshell every brand of saddle has its own measurements for what is a narrow medium and wide wither gullet. Plus different brands have different amounts of flare to the wither gullet for instance A frame or U frame. Plus the length of the gullet and placement of the points of the tree at the gullets are different brand to brand. No standardization.

This is totally independent of the tree size and shape which is why you can switch gullets in a Thoroughgood or pad up the withers in a normal saddle with shims or sheepskin. Or put your Schleese in a saddle press that alters both width and angle of the wither gullet.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Seat size is about how the seat fits the rider. I have never investigated but my guess is you do not get an incrementally longer tree at each half inch increase in seat size. The tree is already buried well within the saddle so I think you could build a seat size 17, 17.5, or 18 on the same tree. Maybe a saddle fitter can chime in to verify here.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Missing from your query is the very important question of how the panels are configured. Just as important as wither gullet is the front to back curve of the panels which is determined by the tree but can be tweaked with flocking. If the panels are too flat for the horse the saddle will bridge and if they are too curved the panels will rock and make the back sore. Bridging can be addressed in a pinch with a pad shimmed in the center, I am using one now on an Old Lady whose back has fallen in a bit.

Another aspect of panel fit is the drape down the sides, whether the saddle is too steep or too shallow for the horses back.

None of these points about panel configuration have standard measurements or terms. We find out through experience which brands tend to fit our own horse.

As you can see altering the wither gullet does not change the curve and drape of the panels so it is only one part of the fitting question.

Anyhow I recommend looking up some of the very good online resources that will have photos and videos to explain more thoroughly what I have tried to say here.

Wow, HUGE thank you!! I really appreciate all the great information. There is a ton of info online but it’s confusing and of course different opinions on fit, etc. I’ll have to rewatch some of Schleese’s videos. I know they make some good ones.

I’m just about to go into my 3rd year of horse ownership. I learn as new things come up. My first mare had all kinds of things going on, but saddle fit was not one of them. I had her 15 months and she had a hormone issue that none of her previous owners figured out. Took a while but we fixed that with DEPO. Then she had a front suspensory strain a few months later so I learned all about that and rehabing over 6 months. She coliced and passed away in March (360 colon twist). I know a lot more about colic now. So, new horse, new things to learn about - this one started with EHV-4 and the state made us quarantine, so I now know a lot about that. Now we are on to saddle issues. Hopefully, one thing at a time and I hope spaced further apart than my last mare. In the middle I’m trying to learn dressage (ha ha, talk about a slow process!) and to be the best partner I can be for my girl.

[Scribbler]

Saddle fit can definitely seem like a huge mystery until you need to get it figured out to solve a problem!

[sheltona01]

The trees (for the most part) actually do get longer as the seat size goes up. Sometimes you can move the cantle plate around to get a bigger size, but for the most part, the trees are actually just longer.

The gullet is the channel between the leather panels. Yes it can be narrower or wider depending on the saddle. Different companies do measure tree sizes differently and the different type of head shapes drastically affect how the same tree size fits very differently on the horse. The SMS defines tree sizes by the angle of the tree points. So if they follow the SMS guidelines, they actually are similar in the tree sizes. However again, the head shape really affects how the saddle fits. A Wide hoop tree is going to fit drastically different from a wide angular tree even if the angles are the same.

If you really want to know more about saddle fitting, look up Kay Hasilow on facebook. She has a lot of good blogs and videos about saddle fitting. She teaches the SMS class and now is semi retired after about 40 years of saddle fitting. I do not particularly like the Schleese stuff. They actually have a lot of misinformation about saddle fitting. It all sounds really good on the surface, but once you start actually researching the topics, they always take a funny turn in the middle and is not right. However if you do not study saddle fitting or anatomy in depth, you would never know that it is not quiet right.

Hope that helps!

[Scribbler]

Actually I agree with the criticism of the Schleese videos as bring a bit off once you get past the basics. It was the best resource I could think of off the top of my head, glad to see a better one here. I also have not been impressed by Schleese rep saddle fit locally.