Half pass / Haunches and neck reining

[CHT]

I am having trouble doing the half pass or haunches in on Izzy when neck reining.

I am sure it is a flaw in my riding, and not a limitation on her part.

I am only able to do these things if i keep both reins off her neck (not pulling just making the reins wider).

Let’s say I am doing a half pass left: if I move my hand left, then she wants to over bend her neck left. If I try to hold my hand centered, then it turns into a leg yield.

She bends/move off my legs fine.

Shoulder in is not an issue, nor is leg yield and side pass.

[mvp]

Your mare may be educated to your leg fine if you are riding two-handed. But she’s de facto not educated to your seat and leg if you can’t control the bend in her rib cage or move her haunches over with your reins in one hand and centered. Same thing for her neck bending (only) and too far in response to your opening hand.

These movements-- haunches in and half pass-- are tough to do within the Western scheme of things. JMO. That’s because you can’t use a direct rein to create any bend, or balance out leg and hand to get that bend from poll to tail. Of course you can do this when riding two-handed in a snaffle.

Also, IMO, getting a horse to be supple enough to hold the bend while not “falling” onto his inside front leg or simply turning in that direction (as in the haunches in) is a real test of just how broke to your leg and seat the horse is. In fact, I found myself wondering just today how much bend really good Western horsemen demand from their horses, given that it’s hard to make a bridle horse that broke to your seat and leg.

And the last bit of my opinion: In your spot, I’d back up, put on a snaffle and re-teach the horse that bend comes from my leg and seat. In effect, you start using hand and leg to get this done, gradually using your leg and seat first and your hand second as merely a reinforcement…. the way you’d use the spur to back up your leg if you didn’t get the response you wanted the first time. And I’m a big fan of teaching the horse to take his cue for the bend from what my seat bones are doing. That leaves the rest of my leg free to create other signals like “travel forward” or “travel sideways” or "maintain what you have, but pick up your rib cage between your shoulder blades.

I think good dressage trainers teach the shoulder in first, get the horse broke to the leg as an aid for “sideways”…. and then start by riding the shoulder in, adding their outside leg well back so as to then create the half-pass.

I’m not opposed to also teaching a horse a haunches in… slowly, like at the walk, riding two handed… as a prelude to teaching him to half-pass. To me, this involves me arranging my seat, shoulders and legs as I want when I expect a haunches in. I ask for that at the walk and wait for the horse to experiment with his body until he finds the “sweet spot” I created with my aids by moving his hind end over. To me, this is teaching him a signal for “move your haunches over.” I want a horse to have this tool-- a clear, obvious response to a distinct body position from me so that when I combine it with other things, or speed, he already has a clue what to do with his body.

Hope this helps.

[Flash44]

OP, that’s a good problem to have. Your mare is trying to do what she thinks you want her to do. She is just a little confused. I’d do what mvp suggests. Sounds like you are at a point where you have a good horse to ride and you are finishing up.

Also, some maneuvers are not usually done when neck reining in competition. They are used more during the process of training. What is your ultimate goal with your mare? Will you be competing in a specific discipline? Not sure where you would need a half pass, other than during training. But they do come in handy for training purposes.

[aktill]

These movements, done one handed, really show how you’ve defined the reins to your horse.

You need an inside bend in order perform both haunches in and half pass, though the bend comes from a deeper hind step rather than from moving the shoulders over with the rein. Can you get your horse to bend without turning, using the reins? Can you get him to take a deeper step under the body shadow without using the reins?

Can you ride both a true bend and counterbend one handed, at all gaits?

I personally strive to have my reins mean nothing more than rebalance, or change bend. They have nothing to do with direction, which comes from my seat and core.

If your reins have anything to do with “turn”, you’ll struggle in the movements you’ve indicated to do them one handed. Likewise, if you have to use the reins to prevent the horse from falling (ie, block a falling outside shoulder with an outside rein).

Haunches in can also be ridden as the bend you’d have on a circle the step before you straighten out again on the wall to go forward. Try approaching it off a circle.

Likewise for half pass, ride a half circle off the wall, keep the bend you’d have a step before you might straighten out to come back, and ask him to step his outside hind under to pick up his inside shoulder and come back to the wall.

[CHT]

She can counter canter one handed, but I haven’t tried counter bend at the trot one handed.

I think Flash has it right: she is definitely trying to do what she thinks I want I am just confused about the correct rein aids for the haunches in/half pass when one handed.

I have no particular goals with her: just having fun and seeing where we get. Hoping to do some low level reining, WP, and Western Dressage. I just don’t know that she really likes showing, but she is a lot of fun to train (very patient with me), so we are experimenting with different things.

Thank you all for the ideas and I will give it a try the next time I ride her western.

[seamom]

Something else to try to help aid in clarifying what you want from her is to weight your seat bones. For half-pass, weight the seat bone on the inside of the bend. Until she figures out what you’re doing, you may need to physically put more weight on that stirrup AND weight the seat bone. As she figures it out, lessen the weight on the stirrup and keep the weight on the seat bone. As she progress with that, weight the seat bone in time with her front leg (on the inside of the bend).

[Flash44]

[QUOTE=CHT;8139361]
She can counter canter one handed, but I haven’t tried counter bend at the trot one handed.

I think Flash has it right: she is definitely trying to do what she thinks I want I am just confused about the correct rein aids for the haunches in/half pass when one handed.

I have no particular goals with her: just having fun and seeing where we get. Hoping to do some low level reining, WP, and Western Dressage. I just don’t know that she really likes showing, but she is a lot of fun to train (very patient with me), so we are experimenting with different things.

Thank you all for the ideas and I will give it a try the next time I ride her western.[/QUOTE]

That’s a great attitude to have. No point in beating yourself up over fine tuning her to the uber degree. If you want to compete and win at a high level, you may have to pursue truly finishing off your horse, but you already sound like you’ve accomplished more than the average horse and rider. have fun!