I’ve read and heard trainers say that all the dressage movements and airs above the ground exist in “nature” and could be observed in horses at liberty.
Has anyone seen a horse do a half pass on its own? I have seen passage and piaffe, leg yields canter pirouettes…
Observe a horse “threatening” another with its hind legs. It may be a momentary movement, but the threatener will turn his hind end towards the “threatenee” in a “haunches-in” position. Haunches-in is the same as a half-pass – just oriented differently.
If you’ve ever had a steam roller or large garbage truck come along you will see some excellent movements.
I don’t think you’ve seen any leg yields at liberty since there is no leg on the horse to yield to. No, I have not seen any true half pass at liberty. Here’s the thing. The old saw that the dressage movements are just improvements upon what he does in nature is not 100% true. Dressage was initially martial arts for horses. It was developed to train horses for battle back when they were the only mode of transportation. The airs above the ground were battle movements too. Piaffe and passage were parade movements. They all had a purpose. What dressage actually improves is the horse’s ability to carry a rider. We don’t ask them to do anything that they could not do without a rider, hence the notion that we are improving on their “natural behaviors.”
[QUOTE=Mondo;8975053]
I don’t think you’ve seen any leg yields at liberty since there is no leg on the horse to yield to. No, I have not seen any true half pass at liberty. Here’s the thing. The old saw that the dressage movements are just improvements upon what he does in nature is not 100% true. Dressage was initially martial arts for horses. It was developed to train horses for battle back when they were the only mode of transportation. The airs above the ground were battle movements too. Piaffe and passage were parade movements. They all had a purpose. What dressage actually improves is the horse’s ability to carry a rider. We don’t ask them to do anything that they could not do without a rider, hence the notion that we are improving on their “natural behaviors.”[/QUOTE]
Actually, piaffe was originally a way for the military horses to warm up “in place” - they didn’t have space to warm up, they were in formation, and this was a way to get them moving without actually moving… Many of the upper level movements were originally created for military - collection and extension were really above absolute adjustability needed in battle.
Agree, half pass is not a true “natural” movement - although a horse can go sideways naturally (and a horse will piaffe and passage naturally). Dressage was about taking a horse’s natural abilities and escalating them for our own use.
I think you will not be finding all the actual stylized dressage movements happening in an untrained horse at liberty in a recognizable fashion that would score you points. I think that what the old trainers meant is that dressage movements build on ways the horse naturally uses himself. As one of the posters said, if you think about half-pass being built on the foundation of haunches-in, then you will see horses at liberty doing movements with their haunches in toward the center of the circle.
The point of the claim is, I think, to stress that dressage and especially haute ecole builds on natural capabilities of the horse, and is not a circus trick or a perversion of the horse’s real way of moving, or cruel, but a development and refinement.
That said, horses improve their way of going at liberty as their training progresses. My mare has improved her trot, and somehow learned to do barrel racing circles at liberty, though we’ve never worked on anything like that under saddle. And she will passage for about 30 seconds when she gets turned into pasture with her old friends for summer vacation!
I was going to suggest her playing fetch with a glove and happily climbing on a circus box as examples of circus tricks that are unnatural, but indeed I taught her those things by building on her natural behavior (grabbing towels off the stall door hooks to get my attention). So maybe you can’t really teach a horse anything that isn’t already in its repertoire?
Some of these movements do occur, not at request but when riding horses under adverse conditions. As mentioned, a steam roller, or large garbage truck coming along, not to mention a hay baler, or a logging truck.
I’ve also gotten some interesting reactions at times when hacking in areas where bears are a possibility, which is anywhere in the NE. Fortunately the horses have been obedient to the seat and hand, but the engagement is exemplary, if somewhat terrifying.
though in these cases, the horse is still moving under constraint from the rider. the more talented the horse, the more interesting his reactions! But I’m not sure they’d move like this at liberty, probably more spin and bolt?
I know my horse will have no problem with :lol:canter pirouettes based on what happens when we are out on the trails and a herd of deer crosses the path without warning.
I believe some form of half-pass is also possible, except in reverse, like when we step into the ring after it has been watered and my horse has to cross dirt of a different color and he says ohhh I don’t think I can do that. Followed by oh yes you can, with half pass in the forward direction :yes:
I really meant horses at liberty and not stuff under saddle. It’s interesting to think off haunches in as a threat gesture, though. And of course, I understand the military uses of other natural gaits and movements.
So perhaps the old dead guys were capturing movement in training the same way we do with our modern dogs?
I really meant horses at liberty and not stuff under saddle. It’s interesting to think off haunches in as a threat gesture, though. And of course, I understand the military uses of other natural gaits and movements.
So perhaps the old dead guys were capturing movement in training the same way we do with our modern dogs?
I have a photo of my mare half passing at liberty tho the angle of the photo doesnt really show it. Since i took the photo tho i know that’s what she was doing 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxpO5Z10_32AQS1rSXA0LXRMNWM/view
We regularly do what we’d call stomp sessions with our horses and a lot of dressage moves would happen…especially as they became more educated. Often only a few strides but it would be there.
Boo, your horse is lovely!
[QUOTE=Bogey2;8976873]
Boo, your horse is lovely![/QUOTE]
Thanks ??? shes my pride n joy
Thanks for the pictures…really do answer my original question
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