Without getting into the HYPP insanity google Mister GQ; N/H, Halter World Champion, World Champion Producer, also won Non-Pro Western Pleasure at Solid Gold Futurity as a 3 yr old with owner aboard. He’s siring both halter and riders.
There is a ranch in Mexico/Arizona that is using halter horse bloodlines for their ranch horses. (featured in a Western Horseman article)
I’m a AQHA peep from way back and hate the way the halter horses have evolved. I also believe the Performance Halter is a joke. Simple solution would be to not use serious confirmation flaws in classes PERIOD. Too bad if some classes would have no placings at all! That would encourage more “using” horses to enter the halter classes (as is should be). JMO and I’m not holding my breath!
I like QHs, I always have. They are sort of the opposite of what I do (dressage/SJ) but what the heck, they are fun and team penning is ~totally awesome~. If they let me drink that much beer and let the announcers heckle at hunter shows I might do that too.
But I digress, as a result of my new-found love of team penning I wound up helping a friend start and train some futurity horses and also some barrel horses. The slow gaits, it is natural. Maybe not as seen on YouTube but it’s super easy for the breed to collect up under your seat and bebop along at a cattle-herding pace all day long or to step into a tiny lope. The one QH we taught to drive had a very easy time learning the different trot speeds, which can be quite hard for other breeds.
So far, so good. Then I went to QH Congress. Holy Mother of God, was that an interesting experience. The air-brushed trailers! The patent leather Wranglers! The margarita makers, built right into the golfcarts! The makeup and the hair! The men dressing in drag! It was a freakin’ blast. The classes were a bit puzzling though- halter horses looked like cows (and not pretty cows either) the HUS looked emaciated, practically abuse cases, and the western pleasure was booooring. Everyone was in brand new tack. I couldn’t figure out what the deal was. Then I did and it was $$$$$. Win Dressage at Devon? A handshake and bragging rights. Win a Non-Pro Futurity at Congress? A gooseneck trailer, multiple silver saddles and enough cash, as it turned out, to remodel a pretty good sized house. The pros were winning trucks and shit. Holy freaking cow, I’d be tempted to starve my horse a bit too.
Priorities
So maybe, what has happened to the Halter horse is a result of losing sight of what is important. The Horse, or the party and the money.
If I want to party… I will go on a vacation and party, but when I am with my horse, the horse is always my top priority.
[QUOTE=silver2;2965646]
Then I went to QH Congress. Holy Mother of God, was that an interesting experience. The air-brushed trailers! The patent leather Wranglers! The margarita makers, built right into the golfcarts! The makeup and the hair! The men dressing in drag! It was a freakin’ blast. The classes were a bit puzzling though- halter horses looked like cows (and not pretty cows either) the HUS looked emaciated, practically abuse cases, and the western pleasure was booooring. Everyone was in brand new tack. I couldn’t figure out what the deal was. Then I did and it was $$$$$. Win Dressage at Devon? A handshake and bragging rights. Win a Non-Pro Futurity at Congress? A gooseneck trailer, multiple silver saddles and enough cash, as it turned out, to remodel a pretty good sized house. The pros were winning trucks and shit. Holy freaking cow, I’d be tempted to starve my horse a bit too.[/QUOTE]
It really is a puzzle – like several different “breeds” when you look at the differences between halter/HUS/WP and then reining or cutting or racing! The $$ incentives reminds me of the bad things that have happened with all the pharmaceutical incentives to doctors to encourage them to use or prescribe their drugs – now we have a huge problem with prescription drug abuse! Another lobbist issue type situation! I don’t know how they will resolve this with so much $$ involved and judges and competitors and breeders being interchangeable along with the officers and egos of the AQHA. Anytime you mix in alot of dough it isn’t good for the innocent victims – they just become a by-product. Very, very sad, particularly considering what a wonderful breed the QH really is! It would probably take a VIP with deep pockets to step forward and start the ball rolling and alot of back-up from the general membership. How bad does it have to get to change for the better?
PennyG
With the QH/Paints there are a variety of types that make up HUS, WP, racing and reining/cutting. That is all well and good. Kind of like there are TBs that come in a variety of type (QH looking, WB looking, classic leggy TB looking) but the odd part about the halter horses is that they seem to be an ideal body type for NONE of the under saddle disciplines.
They aren’t all like that…
This was my foundation bred QH stallion, Heza Skipper JJ.
His grand sire was a world champion & multiple world champion (halter & performance) sire. His sire was a ROM earner in roping. JJ spent most of his life as my sole riding horse. (He is now in Texas making babies!)
He’s got the heavy muscling and typical foundation QH build, but he is also a very beautiful and light mover. Moved the exact same way under saddle.
He had the most wonderful disposition and mind. I would trust him with even the most inexperienced handler/rider. THAT is where the QH really shines. (Not that you can’t find horses like that in every breed.)
Here is my halter mare…
http://www.freewebs.com/clevengerpainthorses/aphasophiasautograph.htm
She is out in pasture 24/7 with other horses. Only stalled when she is very close to foaling. Shes never been shown anything higher then just regular local shows for fun… She rides, and does it all… I love this mare to death!! I do not agree with alot of practices that Halter people do… That is why I do not show the big shows… I like my horses to be horses.
Wow
Clevenger, she’s the kind of mare I would have LOVED to breed my stallion to. She looks like a real powerhouse, and what a producer!
This bridleless video shows what a real QH looks and moves like. http://www.westfallhorsemanship.com/index.php?page=seeus&action=category&id=2
[QUOTE=TaliaCristianna;2971096]
Clevenger, she’s the kind of mare I would have LOVED to breed my stallion to. She looks like a real powerhouse, and what a producer![/QUOTE]
Thank you! We are very proud of this mare! She has certainly earned her keep around here… She is to me, one of those once in a lifetime horses you get…(my dream horse! )
Times change… so should you!
Versatility is dead. Get over it! AQHA knows this very well. How many AQHA Championships been awarded the last 20 years? VERY FEW, due to the fact that most couldn’t get their halter points. That’s why AQHA developed the Performance Halter Class (a total joke - it’s like sorting trash!). To prove my case… AQHA has even gone so far to segregate the JQ-URINAL, oops, I mean the JOURNAL into separate categories. If the quarter horse was so versatile, why would they need to do all of this?
I know that this is hard to believe, but there are thousands of people that own horses that NEVER WANT TO RIDE. Wow, what a revelation to many of you. We selectively breed greyhounds to be fast, beagles to hunt rabbits, australian sheppards to herd animals, but not one of you seem to have a problem with this. So what if a group of people want to breed horses that only have one particular purpose (jog past a judge and look pretty)?
For years, breeders have selected horses that have attributes that contribute to a specific class. Hunter/jumpers have selected horses with height, long strides, high neck sets. Western Pleasure enthusiasts wanted horses with naturally low head carriage and a slow/sweepy gait. And halter horse breeders selected horses with arab like heads, refinement, and muscle mass. What’s the big deal?
I have own/shown congress champions, national high point horses, etc. and I do remember 20 years ago the feeling of winning at halter and pleasure, but everyone has specialized. We can’t turn back now. Just MOVE ON!
Well, for starters a horse is a whole different animal than a dog. Bigger, more expensive to keep, blah, blah, blah.
Breeding animals that are unhealthy (HYPP) and unsound (just look at that conformation) is just plain wrong. I’m sorry but quality of life has to mean something.
Oh he!!, why bother:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;2957338]
The BAD trainers do this…don’t believe it of the whole industry. It was big back in the early 90s…but the industry is moving way past that. Those horses are mostly bred to move with their heads that way.
Please don’t spread rumors about an industry that you don’t have experience with.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, well, I walked through the barns at Lexington about 5 years ago during a QH event, and counted more with heads tied up then not…
I don’t think the industry is moving past much…I think they just hide it better and have changed their marketing strategy…
[QUOTE=didgery;2958960]
For only $1500 you too could end up with a foal whose chances of being an HYPP carrier are 100%! http://www.encorefarm.net/ These guys stand a stallion that is not just N/H (bad enough) but H/H (truly disturbing) - I didn’t realize there were still such horses out there breeding.
Edited to add: Upon viewing their broodmare page, I’ve learned that Encore Farm does not have a SINGLE foal coming (as far as their website reflects) in 2008 that does not have a N/H or H/H parent. Not ONE healthy foal on the way.[/QUOTE]
If you had closely looked at the broodmare page, you would have “learned” that every foal coming had at least one parent that was N/N. Breeding a N/N mare to a N/H stallion will result in a N/N foal 50% of the time and N/H the other 50% of the time. Granted when breeding his N/N mares to his H/H stallion will result 100% of the foals being N/H. So to say that not ONE healthy foal on the way is not true. Until N/H horses fail to sell like hot cakes, N/H horses will continue to be promoted.
Additionally, I hate to point this out to many of you, but the stallion, Diversified is probably one of the greatest quarter horse stallions ever to be shown. He was a World Champion Two year old Western Pleasure horse, then later became a Three time World Champion Halter Horse. He also had Superiors in Halter, Western Pleasure, Hunter Under Saddle, Heading and Heeling. I guess the fact he was N/H didn’t hinder his success.
Despite the fact that he only had one full breeding season in the states, before being sold to South America, Diversified sired many World Champions in Halter, Western Pleasure, and I believe Reining. Today many World Champion/Congress Champion Western Pleasure horses are HYPP positive, but no attention is given to them.
Once the “long back” gene, “crooked legged” gene, “long eared” gene, etc. is identified, I can’t wait to see if some of these sanctimonious, gene “purists” will call out those that continue to breed to those genetically impure/defective horses!
I have to ask, why would a person marry and have kids with a person, knowing full well that their potential mate has a very strong family history of cancer, cystic fibrosis, etc., of which there is no cure? You’ll likely answer that medications/treatments exist that manage those conditions and you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. We all have our “perfect mate” in mind with certain traits that are uniquely important to us that we want to pass on to our kids. But I have to point out that pills are available to HYPP horses that happen to need them.
I have showed horses for over 25 years, and I am here to tell you, a horse is much more likely to die of colic, than he is to die of HYPP. How many horses have ever died of HYPP? Why doesn’t any horse lovers ever ask that question? Any vet will tell you it’s very hard to determine if HYPP is the cause of death.
I was thinking the same thing myself. I don’t care for that horse’s entire rearend at all.
Since this thread is old, I haven’t read through all the pages, just making comments as I go along.
What’s sad about that stallion is that he DIED AT SEVEN! :eek:
Found dead in his stall at feeding time. What a shame. I do believe his gaskins were really THAT big. Freaky and sad at the same time.
Pepto, now he’s a darn good egg. His fee is $18k this year.
