Halter Horse

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=hackinaround;2961071]
As a teen I cleaned stalls for a Halter Paint horse breeder/trainer. A common practice was to inject or implant a bovine hormone implant under the skin of the crest on inside the ear where nobody would see it. It was about 3/4 inch long slim pellet shaped. Im not sure if it was testosterone or something else. When I inquired the wife said it was used to beef market cattle up before sales.

I was just a kid then and just mucked my stalls and :eek: when I saw and heard things.[/QUOTE]

That would be something like Ralgro; a hormonal implant used in beef cattle to make them grow more/faster, particularly muscle.

[LockeMeadows]

[QUOTE=okggo;2959813]
Stupid question…do they train them to move that way or are they bred (i.e. conformational issues) to? [/QUOTE]

I owned a Paint stallion from the time he was a yearling. I never trained him to do WP, but he would naturally drop his head (level to his withers) and jog and lope. He needed to be pushed forward to do a real trot and canter. However, he was a lovely hunter-type mover when rode well. His babies have done very well on the line at USEF shows and are very correct. At one time, he was listed Top 25 Leading Sires with the USEF!! Several of his get are old enough to begin showing over fences and have already won at some “A” shows.

The horses bred for WP tend to have a lower-set neck, a laid-back shoulder, and low hocks. All these things can contribute to being a good hunter. How you train them is up to the trainer. A good horse is a good horse.

[europa]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7_omZ65E2hs&feature=related

Someone explain this to me? Is there a sound horse in this? HELLOOOOOO

GOOD GRIEF

[system]

[QUOTE=europa;2962366]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7_omZ65E2hs&feature=related

Someone explain this to me? Is there a sound horse in this? HELLOOOOOO

GOOD GRIEF[/QUOTE]

AS this was a quite long video I did not watch the entire thing but only saw one horse that soundness was questionable. The hroses were going on the forehand and total unengaged, but that is not the same as lame, sorry

[sublimequine]

While I completely agree how horrendous the extreme halter horses look, I think it does need to be said that there are some VERY stocky, VERY built QHs that are proportional, have a real job, are sound, etc. A lot of Foundation QH stallions are big hulking boys, but also are very talented in cutting, roping, ranch work, etc. Their bulk is actually put to use, not just for show. For instance:

http://www.lynnsquarterhorses.com/LQH-images/snipper-music-lqh4-576x525.jpg

http://www.lynnsquarterhorses.com/LQH-images/snipper-music-smx-356x525.jpg

That is one BIG STOCKY horse. BUT. He is proportional, put together nicely, and has earned points in team penning. He’s also 97% foundation. Really a lovely horse, even WITH the bulk and heavy muscling.

Also, as an aside, some horses do move naturally predisposed to WP. While I think the current WP show world is really not too great, some horses pop out of their moms with super-flat gates and their noses between their knees as they go. I mean heck, my QH mare isn’t really bred anything fancy, and when she’s going around at liberty, she prefers to JOG over trot. And her head is rarely above the point of her withers. Usually even with it or SLIGHTLY below.

[bugsynskeeter]

I also did not watch the whole video. The only horse that might look “off” to those not familiar with the discipline would be the second horse…not engaged behind and diagonal pairs are off. But I agree with ShawneeAcres - on the forehand and unengaged does not = lame. It equals bad training.

I was not offended Europa - but I don’t think that the way these horses go make them any more dangerous to ride then any other type of horse. Didn’t feel accused, but I love WP dearly and hate seeing it constantly battered. It has taken huge strides forward, but still has a ways to go. Rome wasn’t built in a day. AQHA is working hard to change the image of anorexic, bled-out, nose to the floor WP horses of the 90s. Amateurs are not willing to see horses treated like that anymore. I was going to work for a trainer in the Louisville area and went to the barns to talk to him after a show. I saw him tie a horse’s head to its side in a curb bit (tight to its side)…and stand there drinking a beer. Looking around, I noticed that not one of his horses was clear of spur marks. That is NOT a good trainer and I decided right then and there that it was not a place I wanted to work. Funnily enough he didn’t win in the pen either…Trainers like that need to be punished - and HARSHLY. It is up to those who are in it for the love of the horse to fix it.

I too think that the idea of a “performance” horse halter class is a joke. Fix what’s wrong…don’t hide your head in the sand. AQHA was based on the foundation that it was the ultimate all around horses that could halter and ride. Today’s halter horses are anything but a joy to ride…one trainer I worked for had a few halter mares and he RODE his for muscle development! Imagine that. AQHA is trying to get the point across that fat doesn’t equal fit. Fit equals fit. Like pleasure - its going to take time to fix…I hope it happens sooner rather then later! Personally, while I like a good halter horse - horses like Sir Cool Skip make me want to vomit. Oops…I did just throw up in my mouth a bit…

[ohrebecca]

[QUOTE=horselifer88;2957400]
There are sour apples in every discipline, yes, but AQHA halter horses are bred SPECIFICALLY for halter—as in not performance. Most (as in the overwelming majority) halter horses simply CAN’T be ridden. It is completely out of control, through the AQHA themselves are trying to get a handle on it. Just google AQHA world champion halter horse and you will get yourself come real “winners.”
for example
http://www.clarkrassi.com/fearles/RASSI-1207%20copy.jpg
http://www.lonemacfarm.com/dbs/stallions/images/1146449334.jpg[/QUOTE]

I’m no confo expert, but that first horse just looks WRONG.
and the second horse exemplifies the “bulldog” look… just needs an underbite.

i like a well-muscled horse, but the extremes in halter horses (mostly the specifically bred, non-rideable ones) scare me.

[europa]

I must say that the CHRON gives me hope! We all gripe and complain but at the end of the day people here really do care about getting the best information concerning their horses. I am glad to see that some people who love and adore their QHs still exist.

I have always, and still do, think that QHs are the most versatile/sensible and honest horses on the planet. My first, and most precious, horse was a 15.2 roan QH Eclipse…God rest her soul…and I grew up on her back. I owe her to say something for her breed base.

Darlyn had the pleasure of meeting my old girl.

[europa]

Btw did you notice that was a bridleless class??? WTHKCIT??

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

@europa;2962634

Darlyn had the pleasure of meeting my old girl.

Yes, and we won’t tell the world what you called that sweet girl. :no: :eek: :winkgrin:

[camohn]

[QUOTE=europa;2962685]
Btw did you notice that was a bridleless class??? WTHKCIT??[/QUOTE]

Usually being able to go bridleless is the ultimate test of a finished reining horse. It is so well trained you don’t even need the reins/all goes on leg/seat aids. Kinda the equal of a GP dressage horse. They don’t really need the reins in reining since there is no collected movement to need to drive the horse into the bit and “collect” that forward impulsion…there is no collection to a lope! Lynn Palm used to go bridleless in her demos too.

[Foxtrot_s]

Can somebody step in to save this thread and the whole Quarterhorse breed in general by showing some well balanced, well conformed top Quarterhorses doing what they were trained to do, but doing it properly (as in our humble opinions). There is no breed as versatile or as popular and I just love them for their looks and minds. (NO— not the ones we are talking about here, duh!)

[camohn]

All our polo ponies are QH based stock horses: 1 QH, 1 unspotted Paint and 3 Appaloosas. Polo ponies are cutting horses (run/rollback/turn and run) dressed in an English close contact saddle! I will have to load the pics onto photobucket later. None are halter bred of course! Hombre (the QH) is pretty tanky for a polo pony though. He is neither the fastest nor the handiest of the lot but hubby likes him because he is so smooth he is the easiest one to hit the ball off of. (The poor unfortunate beast has the registered name of A Fist Full of Hombre. Eeeew! We got him off the racetrack as a lead pony. He was intended to be an AQHA show horse but he paddles so his owner also had racehorses and relegated him off to the lead pony job instead. Polo players do not care about confo faults and movement defects if they do the job!) The others…
The Paint mare was supposed to be a hunter for her previous owner but she HATES to jump. The bigger issue was that she is a pushy mare (good for polo) but the owner was a nervous rider and Jewel got her ticket PDQ. 2 weeks of boot camp here and she was not pushing people around any more!!
Emma the Appy was on the Appy race circuit first. Then she was a field hunter for her previous owner and now a polo pony here.
Freckles in new and only coming 3. She is actually one that will have polo as a first job since hubby got HER as a 2 YO last fall! She was also intended for the Appy race circuit but she was a bit of a runt (on the small side for her age: 14.2 as a long 2 YO) so the race breeder wanted to move her along. (She also grew about 3 inches over the winter he he he).

[not_again]

Here’s one:
http://www.atlanticequineservices.com/stallion.html

[Halfhalting]

I boarded at a barn with an HYPP stallion in the early 90’s, it was shameful. I sadly and helplessly watched a beautiful 3yo buckskin filly of his have an HYPP fit in the field. She died a year later from it. People continued to breed to him, and the breeder downplayed it. I sat on that stallion once in the roundpen, I remember it felt like I was stretched with my legs strait out and his neck was so thick it looked like I was riding a missle. Amazing really, but so unnatural.

Anyway, I would like to say that this breed is so blessed with the most incredible brain. You couldn’t pay me enough money to ride my horses in a bridleless class! I want to give kudos to all of the good breeders out there that continue to breed healthy and amateur-friendly QHs. From reading this thread, they obviously have their battles in this breed.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

These guys stand some really cool QH stallions, IMO. Mostly working ranch type horses and they show them in the NCHA, the NRHA and AQHA shows. They also have some racing stallions, but I don’t know anything about them.

http://www.6666ranch.com/Stallions.shtml

Edited to add that Carole Rose stands some of the most famous working QHs in the world and she has a fantastic repuation for her managment and training. She is a stand-up individual. Again, working type horses, not halter or WP. http://www.carolrose.com/stallions.html

[Foxtrot_s]

Just a long-shot. Is Carol Rose related to Matlock Rose. We saw him ride Peppy San and it was one of the most awesome performances I’ve ever seen.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;2963915]
Just a long-shot. Is Carol Rose related to Matlock Rose. We saw him ride Peppy San and it was one of the most awesome performances I’ve ever seen.[/QUOTE]

I’m pretty sure that Matlock was Carole’s husband.

[cookie-monster]

Matlock Rose passed away on Jan. 5 of this year. He is a legend, as is Peppy San.

He was married to Carol Rose at one time.

[Foxtrot_s]

Oh, I’m so sorry. I used to spend quite a bit of time visiting the Douglas Lake Cattle Ranch - lots of old memories. I’ll have to p/u a copy of Western Horseman as there is sure to be an article on him. Thanks.