Hand Position - Thumbs Up?

[Blueeyedroan]

Silly question, but one that has been bouncing around in my head after watching random videos, as one does.
When you hold the reins, are your hands straight up and down - thumbs on the very top? Or are they knuckles forward, thumbs pointing towards each other?
I was always taught thumbs UP. Straight up. Elbows in. Now… I’ve slipped on this horrendously and tend to end up with thumbs leaning inwards towards each other a bit. Feels more comfortable. Bad habit, I know.

But I am seeing videos of flat HUS classes, AQHA style (or maybe actual AQHA - I didn’t check) where the hands are stretched out in front in the exact same position you’d hang on to a dirtbike’s handle bars.
What the heck is that about??? Is this what they look for now??

Educate me.

[MHM]

I just saw this video on the subject the other day by Bernie Traurig, who knows a few things about position.

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1149821180476917&id=100063471372677

[Lusoluv]

I ride with thumbs on top. There be a slight variance in angle from moment to moment. But my knuckles are much closer to vertical vs. holding handle bars or piano hands.

[mika0116]

@Blueeyedroan

But I am seeing videos of flat HUS classes, AQHA style (or maybe actual AQHA - I didn’t check) where the hands are stretched out in front in the exact same position you’d hang on to a dirtbike’s handle bars.
What the heck is that about??? Is this what they look for now??

I don’t know how folks view AQHA or what the general consensus is here about it, but I don’t view that as classic hunter/ jumper riding.

I view it as stock breed shows that have some hunter / jumper elements. To me the English classes at stock breed shows are really Wanglish feeling.

It is a completely different discipline where the form IMO is questionable in its effectiveness compared to classic English (hunter, jumper, equitation, even dressage) riding. But stock horses are very different than purpose bred showjumpers so what works for a Worlds All-Rounder QH doesn’t translate to a 1.30m HITS horse.
I am not hating on the discipline, but I am saying that it is its own breed (pun intended) of “English” riding that isn’t always classically correct.

In non stock breed show land what you describe is incorrect.

@MHM’s linked video is superrr accurate. thumbs up at most a 30-40 degree angle towards each other mimicking the slope of the shoulder.

I was told by a dressage R judge as a junior - the bit rings the flat rein and the hand through to the elbow should all be in a line. A turned in piano hand wrist breaks that line (he also used a flat wide Christmas ribbon to illustrate) of communication from elbow to bit.

[GraceLikeRain]

Mirroring the angle of the shoulder. Structurally, I could do truly thumb vertical without introducing tension into my wrists. My left shoulder likes to drop forward, which makes my left elbow loosey goosey, and then my left thumb drops. I don’t try to ride that way but definitely have times where I do a self check and think “how long has that arm been rogue”. It typically corresponds with wondering why horse is dumping that shoulder only to realize the problem disappeared the second I fixed myself. Horses are such a beautiful mirror.

[Willesdon]

With thumbs on top, it is possible to alter the rein contact by just flexing one’s fingers. With thumbs to the side, it isn’t so easy or precise. Just try wriggling you fingers and feel the difference.

English riding evolved for going fast and leaping obstacles whereas Western evolved for long hours and big distances.

[endlessclimb]

Up. My left hand goes rogue, bad habit. Something that makes it easier is to also remember hands together (unless you’re on something super green, and even still - asap hands together). Only the width of the bit apart at max. I’ll often warm up with the reins through one hand to remind myself 1) don’t play with the contact and 2) you don’t need your hands in a giant funnel to get good contact.

[JenEM]

One of the visuals that has stuck with me since I was a kid was an instructor who told me to imagine I’m holding a paperback book open. That really put my hands about the width and thumbs up placement they need to be.

Not that the left one doesn’t develop a mind of its own sometimes, and they both want to go piano-hands, but thirty-some years on, I always remind myself, book.

[fivestrideline]

@mika0116

I don’t know how folks view AQHA or what the general consensus is here about it, but I don’t view that as classic hunter/ jumper riding.

Agree. I would not use breed or stock horse “English” classes as a standard for what is considered effective or desirable in mainstream English style riding. Plenty of horses can be shown in (for example) AQHA HUS as well as USHJA and be successful, but the style is actually quite different.

Thumbs should be on top, or ever so slightly angled toward the centerline depending on rider conformation. The important part is a straight elbow-wrist-mouth line - turning the thumbs in usually comes with a popped out elbow and dropped hand. My left hand likes to wander like this unfortunately

[endlessclimb]

This is a superb visual for both the hand angle and width. Thank you!

[Indy]

My large pony when I was a kid was named “Thumbs Up.” When I walked into the ring and heard the announcer say my pony’s name, it was my reminder to turn my thumbs up (instead of the piano hands I liked to ride with). It was truly why I named him that.

[pony_grandma]

@JenEM

One of the visuals that has stuck with me since I was a kid was an instructor who told me to imagine I’m holding a paperback book open. That really put my hands about the width and thumbs up placement they need to be.

Not that the left one doesn’t develop a mind of its own sometimes, and they both want to go piano-hands, but thirty-some years on, I always remind myself, book.

I used to find a couple of small plastic cups and put those in the kids hands to carry.

I would also stand by the horse’s shoulder - them with the reins and cups in hand and ask them to hand me the cup to show them that they could release and relax the rein. Vs a death grip.

I was adamant about teaching them proper alignment from the start before bad habits. The hand, rein, to elbow to shoulder to back connection down into your seat is how you use alignment and leverage invisibly.

I recently went to a baby shower for a former kid I taught and got to hear from her mother how her daughter is now helping teach several young riders and those same direct instructions come directly out of her mouth like butter.

[RedHorses]

Don’t forget that Hunters is about the horse’s form and the rider’s form is irrelevant as long as it’s not interfering with the horse. I haven’t watched Hunters for years, but there was a lot of rider position flaws, some deliberately copied from the riders of winning horses, back then. The judges were able to ignore things that I found incredibly distracting, including a bobble head fad at one point, and some dangerously (to the rider) poor position over the fences.

[Blueeyedroan]

This is golden advice! To my neuro-spicy brain - VISUAL references are what make things stick. This is being added to my mental book of knowledge. Thank you!

[Blueeyedroan]

Well this all answers my question, and confirms my thoughts were on track.
I just don’t understand how in an “english” class, the classical “english” basics can be so rudely disrespected.
Wenglish. Precisely.

[dags]

My mental image for the littles (and not-so-littles, actually) is ice cream cones. When your hands go flat you lose your ice cream, and no one wants that!

It’s one of those things I’m constantly harping on and I’m thinking (given how often I see piano hands) I may be in the minority…

But it is funny to scream out “ICE CREAM CONES!” in the middle of a lesson and watch everyone fix their hands

[endlessclimb]

Mine was “RICKY BOBBY”!

[pony_grandma]

Ice cream cones makes it fun. Great idea. And it makes memories they hold. You will be remembered! Best thing is it teaches them when they’re an adult that make learning fun works.

[CHT]

I don’t think position should be a fashion.

Thumbs should be on top, but hands at a slight angle that will more or less match the angle of your horse’s shoulder. Why? Because to develop correct feel and quick reflexes, you want your radius and ulna to be parallel with each other and not twisted. Both flat hands and thumbs too rigidly up, will twist those bones, and your reflexes and feel will suffer.

You can feel the correct arm position by placing your hand over the top of the opposing forearm to feel those two bones - you don’t want either bone to feel more pronounced.

[JB]

@mika0116

@MHM’s linked video is superrr accurate. thumbs up at most a 30-40 degree angle towards each other mimicking the slope of the shoulder.

This.

Drop your arms to your side and relax them. Then bend your elbow and only your elbow. Your hand position is the naturally aligned and most effective position of your hand relative to your arm. It might look a bit different from me to you to someone else, but it’s still in a pretty small range of angle.

Function. Not fashion.