Hands together vs. wide hands?

[burnedout]

What are the reasons for each?

A new trainer I am riding with is always telling me to carry my hands “bit width” apart. This is hard for me as I’ve been taught that with horses who are learning to consistently go round, it helps to widen the hands and then bring them closer as the horse accepts the contact and brings his back up. This trainer wants me to keep them close together all the time. I told her it would be a challenge for me (after years of riding with changing widths depending on what the horse is doing), but I’ll keep trying it. During a test at a show, yes, I keep my hands as consistently together as possible, but during training rides it’s going to be difficult based on my past experiences. I know there is a difference in the bit action based on where your hands are, but I guess maybe I don’t really understand when/why you would choose one width over another. Please explain

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Not sure I can help but every really good dressage trainer I have had has yelled at me to keep my hands together. I’m not talking eventing coaches but trainers who have developed horses from scratch to FEI levels.

The explanation given to me is that to teach acceptance of contact you need to give them a consistent and stable place to go and feel. Not bring the bit to them by dropping and/or widening your hands. Instead hands close together and steady and ride the horse up to the contact.

[cleozowner]

I am just a bungling amateur, but I can tell you that the #1 way to piss off my mare (who naturally carries herself in a very well balanced manner) is to widen my hands. I was shocked the first time I did it to her, but I learned within one ride not to do that! (When I ride with my seat and legs, she magically returns to her well-balanced ways. Shocking! ;))
I was originally taught to widen my hands, as well, but thinking about it, widening the hands is pulling the bit into the horse and not pushing the horse to the bit.

[merrygoround]

I have demonstrated to riders that were willing to listen that they can accomplish anything that they want to do by keeping the hands “up there” rather than down and spread.

Wide spread and lowered hands are just a crutch that almost always identifies an eventer.

Grabbing flame suit.

[Heinz_57]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8322443]

Wide spread and lowered hands are just a crutch that almost always identifies an eventer.

Grabbing flame suit. :D[/QUOTE]

Way to generalize. I do know a few people who follow that suit, but by and large they tend to be poorly educated dressage riders trying to pull the horse down on to the bit.

I have used wide hands - WIDE, not LOW - on horses that tended to need help finding straightness through the neck. I have no use for low hands, but widening the hand while keeping the straight, following line from elbow to bit can help (IMO) a horse telescope the neck out and encourages less pinging back and forth from one rein to the other.

Again, I’m talking about wide, NOT low, and still maintaining the following feel.

[Hilary]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8322443]

Wide spread and lowered hands are just a crutch that almost always identifies an eventer.

Grabbing flame suit. :D[/QUOTE]

Ingrid Klimke might have a few things to say to you…

Watching her clinics that is one of the first things she hammered into the riders was that keeping your hands steady - using a bridge if needed - gives your horse a steady place to go. You want him there, right? Then start there and tell him what you want - he’ll figure it out. If you keep changing the goal posts, how will he know what’s right?

Usually this means you have a few moments (or a lot of them) where the horse’s face isn’t vertical. You have to be OK with that and believe that it will be vertical when the rest of him is working correctly.

No one said dressage was easy, but it is actually very simplistic.

[sunhawk]

I agree with Heinz57

[tbchick84]

Don’t wider hands have something to do with helping the horse to balance? It’s just ringing a faint bell in the back of my mind.

[sunhawk]

wide hands invite stretch

[enjoytheride]

I use wide but not low hands on a green horse to encourage stretch or to help them stand up on the outside rein. Since I ride a lot of green horses I have an awful time bringing my hands together when those horses are no longer green but it is the right thing to do and establishes a more finished connection.

[PhoenixFarm]

For myself, it depends on the horse. Carried, together hands is the goal, but as in most things with horses the ideal is simply not always, ideal.

I’ve had horses that simply don’t tolerate a high, narrow hand, just as I have some who won’t tolerate a low wide hand. Many young horses must be started with a low side hand and taught to come up into that higher, narrower contact.

From a teaching point of view, I often tell my students to lower and widen their hands–not because it’s entirely correct, but because the biggest fault I see riders with too long reins, with their hands in the middle of their chest, and using an indirect rein (often with wrists twisted inwards) to manipulate the horse laterally and/or bend it, instead of moving it truly away from the inside leg and bending/reaching through it’s entire body. Thus, I give the instruction to lower and widen the hands, get their wrists straight, thumbs up, shorten the reins to get to a more corrct position/usage, not because I want their hands down at the horses elbow.

But at the end of the day, I let the horse be my guide. They tend to be pretty demonstrative about what sort of rein contact they prefer. It’s the wise person who listens.

[merrygoround]

Wide hands are permissible when you have a horse attempting to duck sideway, or refuse as an example-going into water. Then you box them in, but the hands do not drop.

Hilary- Having re read what I wrote before, I doubt Ingrid would have a problem with what I wrote. I can’t quite see anyone bridging reins from a wide spread hands below the withers position.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I do not (or try not to) use wide even on a green horse. Straightness comes from the legs not the reins. If anything, you lose the shoulders more when you widen and the horses will have an easier time getting crooked. I do not correct crooked from my hand…and when I remember that, funny, they get straight so much faster.

I WILL use a single opening or leading rein on a super green horse when working on turning. But that is typically long before I’m taking a contact and is something you typically only need a step or two and then hands back together.

eta: On a green horse I may not have my hands as high as you would on a more experienced horse (the difference may just be an inch or so) but the are not wide and not low. I will also have a longer rein in general on a young/green horse (not in my lap long but I want a longer shape with them in general)

[snoopy]

No wide hands. An opening rein on a green horse, yes, I call bullshit to anyone who says they use wide hands WITHOUT dropping their hands as well.

[fordtraktor]

I agree with BFNE. I ride with my hands correct (bit width, above and in front of the withers, elastic feel) on every horse. Tempo, tempo, tempo, inside leg to outside rein on the babies, and attention to every slight give and reward. The rest will follow with time and patience.

[burnedout]

I agree with not lowering the hands and yes, my past experiences with widening has to do with straightness. I’m definitely willing to give the narrow hands a try. I do remember riding with a dressage trainer/judge last year who had me ride this guy with narrow hands just in front of the withers with a constant feel to ride him up to. Basically, I’m still experimenting with this new-ish horse to see what works best for him. The trainer at the new barn has a lot of good insight, but there are a few things that are way different from other trainers I’ve ridden with and sometimes I get a little confused. Thanks for the help

[Peggy]

I have used wide as a “funnel” with a green horse through a combination or something they’re sticky about.

Every Saturday is a large group lesson, first flat then a bit of jumping, at my barn. Today we were instructed to ride with our thumbs touching (by sticking them towards each other, not by putting the hands really close) throughout the lesson. All gaits, complete with circles and lengthening/collecting and two point. And riding with ten other horses doing the same thing. Really made you thing about keeping hands level as well as not separating them as a crutch. Interesting exercise on a fairly green horse. Thankfully he was started by a “cowboy” and kind of understands neck reining, so I cheated a bit on the circles.

And, interesting, my horse was going better and in better self carriage at the end of the lesson.

[asterix]

I agree with everything BFNE said.

[enjoytheride]

I will also have to say that one of the most frustrating things as a not so good rider is to have your dressage instructor scream “get your hands out of your lap!” while your jumping instructor screams “get your hands down!”

[AEM74]

I too struggle sometimes with having my hands too far apart. A trick that has helped me is to hold ONE crop/whip in both hands, under my thumbs. In other words, hold the reins as usual, but also hold a crop across the top of your hands, under your thumbs. It also keeps your hands level and “as a unit”. It’s awkward at first, but you’ll soon forget about it and get comfortable with it. I’ve even jumped this way in lessons. Good luck! It’s a tough habit to break.