I’m hoping to cross a KWPN mare with a Hanoverian stallion. He’s not approved for Dutch so I’d like to register the future foal as a Hanoverian. I’ve been on the American Hanoverian Society site and I’m super confused about the registration process. The mare is Dutch, the stallion has passed and I don’t know if he was Elite status or not. Is there someone here with experience or advice who can help? Thanks!
You would need to bring the mare to a Hano inspection to get her approved.
You should also be able to register it KWPN, would just get Register A instead of Foal book. (Unless the stallion had a performance record that would allow for foal book reg.)
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You most likely need to have the mare inspected by the AHS. Don’t worry about the status of the stallion – all Hanoverian licensed stallions are given the title “Elite”. Outside mares (i.e., your KWPN mare) need to score a 7.0 or greater at their inspection to be included into the AHS Main Mare Book.
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I bred my KWPN mare to a Hanoverian-approved stallion a few years ago. First, I had to send them a copy of her papers, and they approved her bloodlines, and said she was eligible for inspection. Then I took the mare to an AHS inspection where she, as @Bent Hickory said, needed higher scores (than a comparable AHS-registered mare) to be approved into the mare book. Once she was approved for breeding w/ AHS, I brought her and her filly to the AHS inspection the following year, where the filly was approved and branded/registered Hanoverian.
You can try to have the mare approved at the same inspection where you take the foal, but of course there’s an element of risk to that. This year, with many inspections being cancelled or rescheduled, however, it might be easier to do them together so it doesn’t put you a year behind. If the mare is already in foal, I believe AHS said 2020 foals out of not-yet-approved mares were still eligible for registration, due to the covid restrictions/situation. However, this is a 2020-only exception to policy.
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Yes, the AHS tends to take a more restrictive view when it comes to accepting outside blood. Most outside mares require a 7.0 to be entered into the Hanoverian main studbook. This 7.0 is the threshold for Hanoverian mares to be considered for now what is referred to as Hanoverian Premium Mares (formerly, Elite Mares). In essence, the outside mares must meet the AHS’s “premium” standard before they are accepted into the Hanoverian breeding program.
There really isn’t a process for “approving a foal.” If the mare is Hanoverian approved and the sire is Hanoverian approved, then the foal will automatically be able to receive Hanoverian papers, even without inspection. In fact, foal registration can be handled entirely via mail.
This COVID-19 provision only applies to foals out of Hanoverian-papered, but as of yet, uninspected mares for their 2020 foals. This would not apply to outside mares (e.g., TB mares, KWPN mares, GOV mares, etc.). Outside mares would still need to be inspected before their 2020 foals could be registered.
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Is the inspection absolutely necessary? I can’t see being able to take her to an inspection before she’s bred given the COVID restrictions and cancellations. I don’t think the foal would be able to apply for KWPN as they are also super strict about allowing in outside blood as well. Additionally, the stallion isn’t approved for KWPN so I’m not sure it would be so easy. Their website is also useless for finding out helpful information. Why is it so hard to register a cross?
Why is it so hard to register a cross?[/QUOTE]
Because the stud book is maintaining the quality of registered animals, which is what gives the stud book its value. Frustrating for you, you know your mare and like her enough to breed her, but any future purchaser of the colt is looking for a horse that is bred to have a better chance at doing a job well because it has generations of known, selective breeding behind it. Although most WB breeds seem to be converging, using the same stallions, Dutch breeding is still different from Hannovarian.
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If the stallion is approved Hano, and the mare is KWPN, you can register the resulting foal in the KWPN register A book by mail with no inspection needed (and the 2020 KWPN tour is cancelled anyway). KWPN has become a lot more accepting of outside blood in the last five years, assuming it’s registered with an erkend registry. Drew in the KWPN office is fantastic and can help you, but response times may be slower due to covid.
@Willesdon I understand wanting to maintain integrity of a breed but it seems like these days they are mixing all kinds of stuff. I’ve seen Hano lines that have other stuff mixed in and it’s a non-issue. I’m extremely unlikely to sell this baby but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to have it registered. My current horse is registered BWP but he is ALL Hanoverian. His mama wasn’t registered but others were in that line. I’m guessing he dropped in Belgium and that’s why he’s BWP. I don’t know enough about breeding and registration to know all the ins and out.
@Anne Thank you! I will reach out to the KWPN people and see if I can get some guidance.
You don’t need to have the mare inspected by the AHS before breeding her. You can present the mare next year with the foal at her side. Doing so is always a risk as foaling and nursing can be tough on a mare’s condition. And the mare might be tense with her foal in unfamiliar surroundings. But it is possible and many mare owners elect this route every year.
@Bent Hickory I’m wondering if that’s still possible when we’re doing embryo transfer… She’s an older maiden mare and getting over a sprained ankle so we were thinking embryo transfer for her own health.
You’re way over thinking this. It really is this simple – the AHS will register foals by a Hanoverian-approved stallion and out of a Hanoverian-approved mare. As of yet, your KWPN mare isn’t Hanoverian-approved. Get her inspected/approved whenever you like, now, next year, ten years from now, and the foal/horse will be eligible to receive Hanoverian registration papers.
@Bent Hickory That’s great to know. It’s like going from Windows to a Mac. Way simpler than I expected. Thank you!
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From KWPN-NA Website (on homepage, under the Breeding heading): [h=5]The list of Erkend studbooks has been expanded from the best 17 WBFSH member studbooks to ALL warmblood horse studbooks that are full members of the WBFSH. Some still have restrictions.[/h] [B]Horses registered with studbooks that are either not full WBFSH members or do not have a European parent studbook with a breeding goal that matches that of the KWPN will be reviewed on a case by case basis. Please visit the WBFSH website to get a complete listing.
Erkend stallions must pass the same veterinary exams as KWPN Approved stallions (radiographs, endoscopic exam and semen evaluation) and must have Grand Prix sport records. The KWPN will determine whether to accept outside stallions for KWPN breeding.[/B]
If the stallion you want to use is approved by either AHS or the German Hanoverian Verband, you can get Register A Papers–Register A papers are sufficient to present the resulting foal for Studbook approval at age 3 or after.
If the stallion himself is considered Erkend as described above, the resulting foal can get Foalbook papers, which is what horses who are from KWPN mare & Stallion get. These are also eligible to be presented at age 3 for Studbook.
In your situation, there’s not really a downside to going with KWPN, no one looks askance at Register A Foals. The downside of going Hano is having to get the mare inspected.
@Dutchmare433 that’s excellent news! He’s deceased now but Celle still has his semen, so he was clearly well liked. Thank you!
