Hanoverian Stallion Yearbook Help

[Pcostx]

Ok, I’m going through my 2012 Jahrbuch Hengste (Hanoverian Stallion Book) to learn about different stallions.

I am trying to cross reference the breed values in the stallion book with the stallions available for breeding through either the AHS or the various semen import companies.

I’m finding that at least half of the stallions I look up are NOT in the yearbook!

Can someone explain this to me? It’s very frustrating. Where else can I look up performance test results and more important to me, breeding values for stallions?

Thanks!

[Marydell]

Not going to be possible with a lot of US based stallions. They simply do not have the number of offspring nessesary to do the MPT or SPT to develop breed values.

[Bent_Hickory]

Also, the younger stallions do not have sufficient offspring to have been tested to generate the breeding values.

[alexandra]

There should be explanations even in english in the book about the database and give you the reasons for that.

As far as I know to be in the book at least 10 Hanoverian branded mares by this special stallion have to have gone through the MPT in Germany. So you will not find any stallion younger than 7yo is in it. Stallions outside Germany no matter how good they themselves or their offspring are not in it. So you will e.g. never find Don Principe in it or I (and some others) really go for my breeding experiment from german point of view and use him. Don’t misunderstand - since not a lot of people in Germany know him this would be a tricky thing. But I met that gentleman in person and really like him - wishing he would be more known and used over here, so it would be easy to sell his foal over here - sigh. I think I have the perfect mare for him !

[Bent_Hickory]

[QUOTE=alexandra;6122752]
Stallions outside Germany no matter how good they themselves or their offspring are not in it.[/QUOTE]

In recent years, many of the older stallions imported into the U.S. that had enough offspring tested in Germany have been included in the Jahrbuch. For example Escudo II, Landkoenig, Linaro, and Pablo are all in the 2012 book. All these stallions had a sufficient number of offspring tested in Germany to be included.

@alexandra;6122752

So you will e.g. never find Don Principe in it or I (and some others) really go for my breeding experiment from german point of view and use him.

The AHS and the HV are working together to change this, but ultimately there still needs to be enough offspring tested in the MPT to have the requisite data to provide meaningful breeding values. Few stallions in the U.S., if any, have had the requisite number of offspring tested. This is one reason why the AHS now allows geldings to go through the MPT so that additional data can be gathered for stallions standing here.

[Pcostx]

Ok, here is an example of a stallion I wanted to look up that is not listed in the Hanoverian Hengstbuch.

Florestan, born 1986. Approved Hanoverian, Westphalian, and others.

He’s an older stallion, why would he not be listed?

And since I’m posting, can anyone give me opinions of Florestan? What he brings to the table?

Thanks!

[RedMare01]

I believe it’s because he’s not a Hanoverian. He’s a Westphalian approved Hanoverian. Therefore he would not be in the Hanoverian book.

[Pcostx]

I was under the assumption that all approved Hanoverian stallions were in the book. There are several Old, West, Holst and TB stallions listed.

[Sunnydays]

Deirdre, perhaps he did not have enough daughters registered Hanoverian, to provide the inspection data? Too bad the info is not there.

[DennisM]

To the best of my knowledge, only stallions who are still alive are listed.

http://service.vit.de/pferd_praesentation/Front;jsessionid=87B16EF70E5476D8AC946938FAEFAE1D?L=0&verband=31&aktion=SelektionVb31Hvp&anzeigezweck=Hengstverteilungsplan

Florestan is no longer alive; that’s why he’s not listed. http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2012/01/florestan-dead/

[Pcostx]

Ah ha. That makes sense! Thank you Dennis.

Now, does anyone have an older Hanoverian Stallion Book that they wouldn’t mind looking Florestan up in and telling me his Breeding Value Estimation numbers?

What is the best way to gather info. on stallions not in the book, especially younger stallions?

[honeylips]

[QUOTE=Pcostx;6127464]
I was under the assumption that all approved Hanoverian stallions were in the book. There are several Old, West, Holst and TB stallions listed.[/QUOTE]

Only ones that have enough daughters branded hanoverian and complete the hanoverian mare test.

[4M_Perennial_Farm]

Here is the url for Florestan’s 2012 values:

http://service.vit.de/hvp/hengst.do?isoDE=DE343435126286&hengst=435126286&zv=31&jahr=2012

You can look at earlier years by substituting the desired year for 2012 as the last part of the url.

At the bottom of the page there is a link titled “new selection”. You can follow that and input other stallions. Currently listed stallions will come up.

Those not listed for 2012 will not come up. In that case, you can leave the name blank and the other fields at their default setting of “alle”. If you now hit “submit” you will get all stallions listed for 2012 (500 of them for 2012). Many of these stallions (e.g. Edward) do not yet have enough progeny tested to assign Breeding Indices.

If you are looking for an older stallion (e.g. Florestan) that is not listed for 2012, it may be easiest to find a son (e.g. the Florestan son First Dance) or grandson that is listed for 2012, follow to that stallion’s individual page (First Dance’s page in this example), then click on the sire’s name (Florestan in this example) to go to the sire’s current data.

Unfortunately, they don’t give the details within each category. You will see in the Jahrbuch Hengste that the main category Typeyness has the subcategories of Head, Neck, Saddle Position, Frame, and Breed & Sex Type. On the web you can only see the main category Typeyness. On the web you can only find the Dressage Index, and you cannot see the subcategories of Trot, Canter, Walk and Rideability which are listed in the Stallion Book.

This is a shame. I am sure that all those data are in the same database. It would be helpful to get access to all the data through the web. As an alternative, they could at least put the data on a disc and sell it so that one could use the power of the computer to sort through the data.

As I understand it, the Breed Values for Typeness and Limbs are based upon studbook inspections of mares, and the Breed Values for Dressage and Jumping are based upon MPT, Auction Selections, etc.

[honeylips]

[QUOTE=honeylips;6127752]
Only ones that have enough daughters branded hanoverian and complete the hanoverian mare test or auction selection process.[/QUOTE]

What does Florestan bring? there was a thread about this around 3 days ago.

[Pcostx]

Yes, and I read it. Thank you! But I still have questions that weren’t answered.

[honeylips]

So share with us your questions? There are quite a few of us with Florestan bred horses/know Florestan quite well/ on the board.