Hard ground, ouchy feet. Shoeing ideas needed. - Update!

[runNjump86]

Okay armchair farriers, I need some help. My big TB has had chronic sore feet for several years. He was long toe-low heel, has been shod properly for years, but his heels never really recovered. I’ve had a ton of vet work done, we know it’s “thin, flat hoof”. New info: When I say a ton, I mean it: MRI, bone scan, yearly rads, etc. We had him on an injection program that significantly helped. His last lameness check was done mid-June, and his vet (who brought him back eventing after I was considering euthing) was super happy with how his coffins felt. We didn’t feel it necessary to inject them at the time, so he got hocks done and a round of Osphos at the end of June.

We recently moved and while he is living a horse’s dream come true (outside nearly 24/7 with both hay and grass) his poor feet are unhappy with the very dry, very hard ground. I have used plenty of sole-hardening things in the past, what I need is a shoeing fix (but yes I am going to start using Durasole again, had great luck before).

He has been going well in a Trac-Me shoe with a rim wedge pad. Every time we have tried full pads in the past he has gone completely lame from the pressure. It’s been a couple years since we tried them, but I know at one point we tried a super soft gel and even that didn’t work. Does anyone have any ideas they feel like sharing? He’s so sore right now I feel bad riding at all.

Farrier came last Wednesday and has him in different shoes. Will take updated pics today

Glue-on recommendations? Hoof boots?

7/26 update: Vet appointment went well! Turns out his coffin joints were very angry, so we injected. The vet is also a farrier and said he would like to see him in full pads, but since he can’t tolerate sole pressure then to just keep working on getting the heel to stand up.

[Scribbler]

Have you ever x-rayed his feet? How do the angles of the coffin bone look? It is unusual for a horse to be ouchy in shoes if there isn’t an internal problem.

Also did you address his nutrition at all?

[OneTwoMany]

@runNjump86

Okay armchair farriers, I need some help. The farrier is coming next week My big TB has had chronic sore feet for several years. He was long toe-low heel, has been shod properly for years, but his heels never really recovered. I’ve had a ton of Vet work done, we know it’s “thin, flat hoof”.

We recently moved and while he is living a horse’s dream come true (outside nearly 24/7 with both hay and grass) his poor feet are unhappy with the very dry, very hard ground. I have used plenty of sole-hardening things in the past, what I need is a shoeing fix (but yes I am going to start using Durasole again, had great luck before).

He has been going well in a Trac-Me shoe with a rim wedge pad. Every time we have tried full pads in the past he has gone completely lame from the pressure. It’s been a couple years since we tried them, but I know at one point we tried a super soft gel and even that didn’t work. Does anyone have any ideas they feel like sharing? He’s so sore right now I feel bad riding at all.

Do you mean that his SOLES are thin and flat rather than the hoof?

I’d be concerned if his chronic condition has lasted several years. Is his soreness present year round or just during certain times of the year. What vet work have you had done, how long ago, and what were the findings?

This time of the year, the ground gets hard. Add in stomping at flies and it is a great recipe for bruising.

[JB]

What’s his full diet?

I second getting xrays.

Can you post pictures?

[Heinz_57]

I have no idea what a trac-me shoe is and can’t find anything via Google, but you could try Magic Cushion packed under a full pad. Or a “flip flop” pad, that might encourage his heels to stand up without being constricted and provide some cushion/sole protection. I came across some the other day that were available in a wedge and can be cut out in the sole/frog area if needed.

Or a bar shoe? Really hard to say without knowing the true issue or where the soreness is coming from, you’re kind of playing a guessing game. If his heels are constantly crushing, what do the bars look like? The frog?

I would worry about the long term implications to the frog with keeping a horse in a wedge rim pad with no frog support.

[StormyDay]

• Fly boots to stop as much of the stomping as you can
• possibly try a nail on rubber shoe or even just a rubber liner (I’ve seen the product recently but can’t find the website) in between your shoe of choice and hoof to try to help with concussion.
  -X-rays to see what is going on in there

[EmilyM]

i had great luck with pour ins.

[Scribbler]

@EmilyM

i had great luck with pour ins.

This would be good for some problems but not for others. X-ray first.

[Heinz_57]

@Heinz 57

I have no idea what a trac-me shoe is and can’t find anything via Google, but you could try Magic Cushion packed under a full pad. Or a “flip flop” pad, that might encourage his heels to stand up without being constricted and provide some cushion/sole protection. I came across some the other day that were available in a wedge and can be cut out in the sole/frog area if needed.

Or a bar shoe? Really hard to say without knowing the true issue or where the soreness is coming from, you’re kind of playing a guessing game. If his heels are constantly crushing, what do the bars look like? The frog?

I would worry about the long term implications to the frog with keeping a horse in a wedge rim pad with no frog support.

Quoting myself because I recalled that OP has had ongoing foot issues with this horse, so I went back and it looks like you’ve already tried all of these suggestions. :lol: OP also says she has done yearly rads on these feet. Perhaps a leather pad without any packing? Or some of the newer technologies in composite/non-metal shoes? Easyshoe has come out with some new options that might be worth exploring.

I’d still be curious to know what the sole, especially the bars/frog look like. I have a horse with “low heels” that turned out to be a farrier problem… horse actually grows heel just fine when it’s not locked into grossly overgrown bar material that migrates over the entire sole, thinning it in the process.

[Twigster]

Your horse doesn’t sound too dissimilar from my horse. Mine is huge and has flat fronts, doesn’t grow a lot of foot, doesn’t grow a lot of heel and he has the tendency to run under. X-rays show thin soles. When its hot and dry and the bugs are out he gets sore. During these times the best results my farrier has had have been from moving to a 5 week cycle in order, adding magic cushion and a leather pad. When he trims the fronts he is really more shaping the foot with the rasp. There’s not much to trim off.

[runNjump86]

@Heinz 57

Quoting myself because I recalled that OP has had ongoing foot issues with this horse, so I went back and it looks like you’ve already tried all of these suggestions. :lol: OP also says she has done yearly rads on these feet. Perhaps a leather pad without any packing? Or some of the newer technologies in composite/non-metal shoes? Easyshoe has come out with some new options that might be worth exploring.

I’d still be curious to know what the sole, especially the bars/frog look like. I have a horse with “low heels” that turned out to be a farrier problem… horse actually grows heel just fine when it’s not locked into grossly overgrown bar material that migrates over the entire sole, thinning it in the process.

Thank you Heinz. TBH I didn’t feel like recanting everything because as you found, I have done all of the above and more.

ETA - I had a much longer post typed than the one paragraph and it poofed. I apologize for sounding snotty. Damn iPhone.

He had been completely sound before we moved, so this is definitely a footing isshe. I’m hoping the new farrier will have some ideas, but I am considering going back to a flip flop pad temporarily. The last time he was in that shoe he did well, but we had traction issues and it ended up causing his heels to collapse again. He does respond well with frog support, but that shoe ended up causing his frog to collapse. His RF is just a crappy foot.

Magic cushion under a pad and a super soft pour in were too much pressure for him. He is uber-sensitive to sole pressure.

2nd edit: I am leaning towards a glue on or similarl style. Fingers crossed we don’t have a $400 farrier bill!!

[Heinz_57]

@runNjump86

Thank you Heinz. TBH I didn’t feel like recanting everything because as you found, I have done all of the above and more.

I feel you there. I am in a not-dissimilar boat. I’ll send you a PM and maybe we can brainstorm together.

[Stacie]

Consider consulting with Daisy Bicking, at Daisy Haven Farm

[Peggy]

Short term, until the farrier comes, you might consider icing his feet.

Mine with a flat, somewhat oddly shaped foot, has a quarter crack and icing is one of the things the vet advised to take some of the ouch out of his foot. Nothing that the vet probably caused some of the ouch when he lunged him on hard ground to assess soundness. In literally 15 minutes we went from “whoopee, we get to go back to full work and jumping” to “tack walk and ice feet until the farrier gets there.” I have no luck with horses–this horse previously showed in the 1-m jumpers with no shoes…

I put his foot in a plastic bag (food storage type, since it’s less noisy than a grocery-type bag) and then either use a small feed tub or a boot that proved useless for liquid water, but is pretty good for solid water (to be fair, the one I linked looks like it might be an improved mode) putting in a layer of ice, then the foot, and then more ice, mounding up towards the problem areas.

[runNjump86]

@Peggy

Short term, until the farrier comes, you might consider icing his feet.

Mine with a flat, somewhat oddly shaped foot, has a quarter crack and icing is one of the things the vet advised to take some of the ouch out of his foot. Nothing that the vet probably caused some of the ouch when he lunged him on hard ground to assess soundness. In literally 15 minutes we went from “whoopee, we get to go back to full work and jumping” to “tack walk and ice feet until the farrier gets there.” I have no luck with horses–this horse previously showed in the 1-m jumpers with no shoes…

I put his foot in a plastic bag (food storage type, since it’s less noisy than a grocery-type bag) and then either use a small feed tub or a boot that proved useless for liquid water, but is pretty good for solid water (to be fair, the one I linked looks like it might be an improved mode) putting in a layer of ice, then the foot, and then more ice, mounding up towards the problem areas.

I was debating on doing that. He stands in an ice bucket since we’ve been down this road before, and that’s my protocol for post-XC schooling or events. Yes, this horse has been sound enough to run Training. Seems like a bloody miracle, lol!

[runNjump86]

@OneTwoMany

Do you mean that his SOLES are thin and flat rather than the hoof?

I’d be concerned if his chronic condition has lasted several years. Is his soreness present year round or just during certain times of the year. What vet work have you had done, how long ago, and what were the findings?

This time of the year, the ground gets hard. Add in stomping at flies and it is a great recipe for bruising.

Yes, soles are thin and flat. As I said he has been sound for quite some time and competing. His soreness isn’t chronic, the issue is. I have had so much vet work done I can’t even recall dates. Findings: Thin, flat soles with crappy heels. No joke.

@JB

What’s his full diet?

I second getting xrays.

Can you post pictures?

Full diet is well-rounded, and has been on numerous hoof supplements that really didn’t help. Going to try and get our yearly rads done next week. Pics posted.

@Twigster

Your horse doesn’t sound too dissimilar from my horse. Mine is huge and has flat fronts, doesn’t grow a lot of foot, doesn’t grow a lot of heel and he has the tendency to run under. X-rays show thin soles. When its hot and dry and the bugs are out he gets sore. During these times the best results my farrier has had have been from moving to a 5 week cycle in order, adding magic cushion and a leather pad. When he trims the fronts he is really more shaping the foot with the rasp. There’s not much to trim off.

Very similar! Magic cushion and a leather pad made him almost crippled from the pressure. He’s on a five week schedule. We have lots of fly spray and boots, but the hard rocky ground is winning ATM.

[Posting_Trot]

Not an expert, but when I looked at your pictures the hooves still seem like they have their heels running forward and toes too long. This observation could result from the pic being small and from a slightly off angle. They also look a little bull-nosed.

If I’m right, I would not be happy with the shoeing and trimming of those hooves at all.

[JB]

@runNjump86

Full diet is well-rounded, and has been on numerous hoof supplements that really didn’t help.

I’ve seen many, many “well rounded” diets that were so off balance in some minerals which directly impact healthy feet, such as the iron:copper:zinc ratios.

[Bluey]

@runNjump86

Yes, soles are thin and flat. As I said he has been sound for quite some time and competing. His soreness isn’t chronic, the issue is. I have had so much vet work done I can’t even recall dates. Findings: Thin, flat soles with crappy heels. No joke.

Full diet is well-rounded, and has been on numerous hoof supplements that really didn’t help. Going to try and get our yearly rads done next week. Pics posted.

Very similar! Magic cushion and a leather pad made him almost crippled from the pressure. He’s on a five week schedule. We have lots of fly spray and boots, but the hard rocky ground is winning ATM.

What do the x-rays and ultrasound show of that ankle and that thickened looking tendon and it’s attachment there?
There may be part of the answer for you.

[Peggy]

@runNjump86

Adding pictures. This was the TracMe shoe with a wedge pad. I will take pictures of his current shoe later today. He is still very sore. I tried getting on to walk around the pasture and when going downhill or trying to turn he was very ouchy.

To my amateur eye, it looks like there isn’t enough shoe under the heel. I also recall that he has some interesting issues and preferences so he may not be happy with more shoe under the heel. In the photo looking down at the back of the foot the heels look sheared. Some of the latter may be angle, but I don’t think it all is. Will be interesting to see photos of new shoeing job.