I ordered a semi-load of alfalfa two weeks ago from this business after seeing their website and checking their “references”. Here is the website address:
http://www.haydudehay.net/haydude_main.html
When the hay arrived, it appeared to look okay, smelled okay and at first glance was mostly green (it was still on the truck). I looked at the bales on the first pallet when it was unloaded, but then I had to return to the office (my business is on the same property).
When I came out and looked at the hay later after it was all unloaded, I noticed that the hay on most of the other pallets was very “stemmy” and not as nice as the first pallet I checked out. The driver had dropped off half the load at my barn and then took the other half to the feed store about 2 miles away.
When I called the feed store owner, she said that she noticed the same thing with the pallets she had. I immediately called “HayDude” and told him I was concerned about the heavier stems than I was accustomed to getting, but he assured me that the hay was fine and he had no problems with the other farms he had sold the hay to.
I have fed the hay to my horses for the past 2 weeks and just as I suspected, they eat all of the leafy parts and smaller stems, but spit out the larger stems, wasting approximately 1/4 - 1/3 of the hay. Previously they would never leave a single stem of the alfalfa. They also get coastal hay, and they will eat that rather than the stemmy alfalfa. Before they would not touch the coastal until all of the alfalfa was gone.
I emailed HayDude and told him I was not pleased. Because his website clearly states that he guarantees 100% satisfaction, I asked what he would do to fix the situation. He has sent replies to my messages, but so far not answered my questions and seems to think that the hay he sent was acceptable. I have copied the exchange below:
From: Tricia Veley <tricia@flightsafetyequipment.net>
Subject: Re: haydude
To: hayforyou@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 10:58 PM
They are still moving the hay as we speak. So far I have found about a dozen bales that are questionable because of mold. I am attaching some photos. How old is this hay? You mentioned it was first cutting, would that be this year or last year’ first cutting?
I have VERY expensive broodmares and I cannot afford to have them get any moldy hay. I have not cut open the bales to see how deep the mold goes, but there are several pockets in many of the bales, some are sort of damp, some are drier and very dusty, some is bluish or whitish and some is darker, almost black. All the hay in these pockets smells distinctly moldy.
Again not all of the bales have these outwardly visible pockets of moldy spots, so far we have found these suspect bales in 3 pallets of the 11 that I have here. The remaining bales from these pallets seem outwardly okay, but then I have not cut them open. We still have 8 more pallets of bales to move (we cannot get the forklift in that area in the barn, so the bales must be individually moved and stacked), but viewed from the outside, I do not see more than a few bales with any suspect areas that may have any mold. I cannot see all 4 sides of the pallets though, as they are stacked next to each other and I cannot see between them.
I will update you again as we progress further. My helpers are leaving in a few minutes, so we will continue moving the bales tomorrow.
Tricia Veley
From: Billy Oestreich <hayforyou@yahoo.com>
To: Tricia Veley <tricia@flightsafetyequipment.net>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:27:55 AM
Subject: Re: haydude
will you have a tally for me today ?
— On Sat, 2/21/09, Tricia Veley <tricia@flightsafetyequipment.net> wrote:
From: Tricia Veley <tricia@flightsafetyequipment.net>
Subject: Re: haydude
To: hayforyou@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2009, 12:03 AM
Dear Bill,
We are finally finished going through all 22 pallets.
I found 16 bales that had some moldy spots on them (not the whole bale was moldy, just small sections).
We also had the 2 pallets (4 cubes/18) that I spoke to you about that were noticeably older and much drier/browner/stemmier than the rest. These pallets had blue bands vs. the white bands on the remaining pallets. The lot numbers for these pallets were A9107 (3 cubes/18) and A9871 (1 cube/18). I do not believe that these bales are of the same age/quality as the rest of the hay. I am assuming that these had to be left over from last year as I cannot imagine that they would be so much browner and drier if they were from the same year as the rest of the hay on the other 20 pallets.
If the freight were reasonable, I would definitely send these 2 pallets back to you to be exchanged for better quality bales. Since it is not cost effective to send these older bales back and they are not totally “bad” or moldy (other than a few small areas) I am willing to pay you a reduced amount for them. I will also pay you a reduced rate for the 16 bales with the mold spots as I believe I can use the other parts of the bales, just not the sections with the mold.
Best regards,
Tricia Veley
— On Wed, 3/11/09, Tricia Veley <tricia@flightsafetyequipment.net> wrote:
From: Tricia Veley <tricia@flightsafetyequipment.net>
Subject: Re: haydude
To: hayforyou@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 4:02 PM
Dear Bill,
After feeding my horses the alfalfa hay I received from you for a couple of weeks, I am really not happy with the large amount of coarse stems that the horses are not eating. Typically my horses will not leave any trace of alfalfa at all, practically licking the shavings to get every little piece. They are now eating just the leaves and refusing to eat the stems, picking them out and throwing them down. As you know, I expressed my concern about the excessively “stemmy” appearance of many of these bales immediately when I first got them, but this has confirmed what I suspected would happen. I estimate that fully 1/3 to 1/2 of the hay I give the horses is being wasted. Not ALL of the bales are this way, but the vast majority of them are. I have also found numerous rocks and sticks and other debris in several bales and I use only 1 1/2 bales per day, so you do the math.
I do not feel that this hay should have been represented as “horse quality” which is what I specifically asked for. It is, at best, what I would call cow or deer quality hay. Is this the type hay you normally sell as “horse quality”? If so, I will definitely not be ordering any more hay from you in the future. If not, we need to have a discussion regarding what we can do about the pricing of this load. Alfalfa hay is too expensive to see so much of it be wasted like this, essentially being used as bedding when the horses spit it out and grind it into the shavings in the stalls, refusing to eat it. The feed store that took half the load is having a problem selling it as “horse quality” hay as well, even though there is no other alfalfa readily available here. The deer feeding people are buying some of it from them, but at a very reduced price.
I have VERY expensive horses and this hay just does not meet the quality standard I am looking for. I am a very reasonable honest person and I am not attempting to not pay you a fair price for what I received, but I believe I should get what I ordered and paid for. By now you should have received and cashed the check I sent you. How do you suggest we resolve this issue?
Best regards,
On Mar 11, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Billy Oestreich <hayforyou@yahoo.com> wrote:
guess we thought the hay was fine , some of the same hay went to other horse farms , some horses are different than others also , its not always the hay , I dont know what to sa we dont do this intentionally to make people mad , we try our best
— On Thu, 3/12/09, Flight Safety Equipment <fsei@swbell.net> wrote:
From: Flight Safety Equipment <fsei@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: haydude
To: “Billy Oestreich” <hayforyou@yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 2:22 AM
You have not answered my questions. Is this the typical quality of the hay that you normally provide?
I agree with your statement that different horses like different things, but mine are not usually picky eaters. I have NEVER had any problems like this with them before. I have 9 horses and they are all doing the same thing.
Not many horses (unless they have no other option) will readily eat hay with heavy stems, which is why “horse quality” hay is fine stemmed and leafy, not heavily stemmed.
Cows and deer are not nearly as particular, so the lower quality heavier stemmed alfalfa is just fine for them. If I had not specifically ordered “horse quality” hay or had asked for cow hay, this hay would be just fine.
What can we do now to resolve this issue? Your website guarantees 100% satisfaction. I would like to work out a solution that will work for both of us.
Tricia Veley
From: Billy Oestreich <hayforyou@yahoo.com>
To: Flight Safety Equipment <fsei@swbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:25:21 PM
Subject: Re: haydude
what are you suggesting ? I guess I dont know , its spring and hay is tuff now so we are doing our best
---------On Thu, 3/12/09, Flight Safety Equipment <fsei@swbell…net> wrote:
From: Flight Safety Equipment <fsei@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: haydude
To: “Billy Oestreich” <hayforyou@yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 1:49 PM
I am trying to determine if the quality (heavier stemmed) alfalfa I received is what you normally consider to be “horse quality” hay. If so, I will not ever order it again. I will be buying many more loads of hay in the future, as will many of the other breeders in this area, so it would be nice to know if you are going to be able to reliably supply the good “horse quality” type hay I require. What you sent me this time is not it.
If this hay was simply all that you had left over in the barn from last season, but it is not up to the standard of the “horse quality” hay you would normally provide, I would suggest that you either refund a percentage of the purchase price to compensate us for the lower quality and reduced usage value (volume of hay wasted, due to the horses refusing to eat the heavy stems) or replace the lower quality hay I received with the proper fine stemmed “horse quality” level of hay that I ordered to begin with.
Tricia Veley
From: Billy Oestreich <hayforyou@yahoo.com>
To: Flight Safety Equipment <fsei@swbell.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:23:40 AM
Subject: Re: haydude
we have finer stemmed hay also , its more money I was trying to save you money so apparentaly it was not the way to go . its not bad hay you have and some people are fine with it , I would send you something finer next time and discount you if you would like to work something out , we are not out to make people mad
From: Flight Safety Equipment <fsei@swbell.net>
To: Billy Oestreich <hayforyou@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:54:17 PM
Subject: Re: haydude
I told you up front that I was looking for “horse quality” alfalfa when I asked you for a quote. You quoted me the price. I did not ever ask for a lesser quality hay to save money. It is false economy to pay less and then waste 1/3 to 1/2 the hay because my horses will not eat it. If you had finer stemmed, better quality hay, you should have sent that hay since that is what I ordered. Perhaps there are other farms you deal with that are not as particular about the quality hay they get (maybe they have both cows and horses), but I am not one of them.
Since I specified “horse quality” when I requested your quote and you did not say that the price you were quoting was for a lower grade of hay and you also admit you sent me a lesser quality hay than I specifically ordered, I would definitely like to receive a partial refund of the price I have already paid for the hay, or a replacement of the hay I received with the better fine stemmed hay delivered at your cost.
Tricia Veley
I am still waiting on his reply, but as you can see, he still does not seem to understand my issues with the hay I received. I paid him almost $10 per bale (x 702) We paid less for the several bales found with small spots of mold and the older browner bales. These were the very dense compressed bales so the small mold spots were limited to only very shallow individual sections and did not contaminate the whole bale. I disposed of these lesser quality sections and the ones next to them by throwing them into the wooded areas for the deer (not accessible to the horses).
If you decide to order from HayDude, please be VERY specific and verify several times what you are looking for and expecting. I will update you as this progresses and I get his response. His hay for the most part is not unhealthy BAD (or I would NEVER feed it to my horses), but it is just not what we normally would expect to be considered “horse quality”.
