Has anyone ever NOT used a stallion due to extra fees above and beyond the stud fee?

[back_in_the_saddle]

So the price of a stallion (fresh, frozen, live cover, etc…) is $xyz price for the stud fee.

Have you ever added up the other extra fees (in addition to stud fee) associated with stallion ‘A’ (which may include collection, shipping, frozen handling fees, container rental, container charging, etc… ) and gone to stallion ‘B’ because the other fees with stallion ‘A’ were higher than you wanted to pay?

If so, describe what extra fee(s) caused you to change your mind about using a stallion.

What $ amount in total extra fees is your do not exceed limit?

[rosebudranch]

No, if the stallion is the best match for my mare and my breeding goals you breed with that stallion, if its too expensive… you dont breed and save until you can afford it. If you are going to go down to the possibly $100-500 difference in fees that are going to make your decision you probably shouldn’t breed anyway because vet fees can be thousands without notice…

[omare]

I can see that happening -some collections fees etc are significantly higher for some stallions than others and if you have to breed for more than one cycle it could add on lots of dollars. I could see that be factored in. Unless you have already gotten a spectacular foal/competitor from that cross you do not really know if that is the “one and only” stallion for your mare-I suspect there is always another perfectly good option. Another thing about excess or what looks like unreasonable fees is it makes you wonder how easy the SO will be to work with. In the end you want a foal on the ground.

[Fourbeats]

Yes, I do pay attention to the extra fees and I will avoid stallions who I feel have excessive fees. For example, I won’t use a stallion who has a $500 collection fee, sorry but nothing will convince me that it needs to be that high. Since I don’t believe there is only one perfect stallion for my mare I have no problem shopping elsewhere. For me, it’s not a matter of if you can’t pay the prices, you should avoid breeding and save up for it, it’s a matter of cost vs. value.

[_Tradewind]

[QUOTE=omare;7496102]
I can see that happening -some collections fees etc are significantly higher for some stallions than others and if you have to breed for more than one cycle it could add on lots of dollars. I could see that be factored in. Unless you have already gotten a spectacular foal/competitor from that cross you do not really know if that is the “one and only” stallion for your mare-I suspect there is always another perfectly good option. Another thing about excess or what looks like unreasonable fees is it makes you wonder how easy the SO will be to work with. In the end you want a foal on the ground.[/QUOTE]

Completely agree with this. I have never had only one stallion on my list for any mare, I usually have at least 3 or 4 that I feel would suit the mare. I can see having a stallion at the top of the list, especially if you’re a particularly big fan of that stallion in general, but if your mare is worth breeding there should always be at least a few contenders to breed her to. Therefore, there are a number of variables that have factored into my decision to breed to a particular stallion, including added fees and the indicators of possible extra hassles with the stallion owner.

IME, stallion owners who are quick to respond, offer discounts and generally do what they can to make it a positive experience for the mare owner are the ones that are best to deal with, ie. are most likely to send me semen when I need it on a weekend or asap. Thus, these are the SOs I choose to work with.

[RunningwaterWBs]

[QUOTE=Fourbeats;7496138]
Yes, I do pay attention to the extra fees and I will avoid stallions who I feel have excessive fees. For example, I won’t use a stallion who has a $500 collection fee, sorry but nothing will convince me that it needs to be that high. Since I don’t believe there is only one perfect stallion for my mare I have no problem shopping elsewhere. For me, it’s not a matter of if you can’t pay the prices, you should avoid breeding and save up for it, it’s a matter of cost vs. value.[/QUOTE]

This. :yes:

Nickel and diming mare owners this way is a good way to deflect business. I might use a stallion with these fees once, but probably not repeatedly and I would probably warn friends to look out for the fees.

I once “won” a bid on a breeding to a nice stallion in an auction, only to find out about the “extra” fees later. You guessed it – I haven’t used that stallion or any others owned by that farm since.

I do find the idea that the stud fee is the smallest part of the cost of breeding a bit contradictory, especially since the cost varies so widely. I’ve paid anywhere from $0 to $2700. At this point, we have enough access to great stallions that I just don’t believe in there being ONE perfect fit for a mare. Most likely, there a between 5 and 10 stallions who make a compelling and marketable match for a mare. IMHO, those stallions – and their fees – need to be fair and competitive.

[goodpony]

Yep, I actually passed on a stallion after looking over the contract which included numerous tack on expenses including $500 additional fee to be paid to SO if more than two collections were required in a season. This additional fee was something I had never seen before (and wondered if this was something new) and would have brought the stud fee up to 2k. If your stud fee is 2k then state that clearly on your literature.

[Cindy_s_Warmbloods]

No so much a fee but there is one stallion that I would like to breed to but he is only M/W/F collections and it is making me hesitate because of that.

[Blume_Farm]

I agree that the stud fee is only a small part of the total cost of raising a foal, but it is not an insignificant part. I find it distasteful when there are a gazillion add on fees and high collection fees. I too am not convinced that there is ONE stallion for each mare so a “nickel and dime” effect could help make a decision for me if I was deciding between two stallions.

Having said all that, customer service trumps everything! I rather pay a higher stud/collection fee and have a fabulous stallion owner to work with, than save a few hundred bucks and deal with an absent owner.

It is funny as I deal with a similar problem in my business with pricing things such as boarding dogs. Some folks prefer a flat fee, (ie; $30/ night and that includes walks/ play time) while others prefer to pay $20/ night for two outside trips and have the option of paying an additional $10 for two extra walks/ day. Personally, from a business standpoint I just decided to make all inclusive flat fees. Was easier for the staff and some clients would ask “can I just pay $5 extra/ day for a shorter walk” or try to tailor things too much.

Hence, I think in the end it is better to just have one higher fee that includes all those ancillary fees. For me, if I was a stallion owner I would even price a stud fee to include two collections (any additional collections that might be needed have a fee).

[clint]

Exorbitant and numerous fees will make me look elsewhere, as will the m/w/f collection schedule.

[ahf]

[QUOTE=clint;7496486]
Exorbitant and numerous fees will make me look elsewhere, as will the m/w/f collection schedule.[/QUOTE]

What Clint said. In addition, difficult stallion managers will delete a stallion from a list of possibles. I’ve been known to look up progeny of a possible stallion on the internet and cold-call the breeder to see how well the SO managed the breeding. That was, at times, illuminating.

[Fourbeats]

I won’t use a MWF only collection stallion either. I prefer to use stallions who are available when my mare is ready, it’s just one less thing I have to stress over.

[whitney159]

[QUOTE=Tradewind;7496143]
Completely agree with this. I have never had only one stallion on my list for any mare, I usually have at least 3 or 4 that I feel would suit the mare. I can see having a stallion at the top of the list, especially if you’re a particularly big fan of that stallion in general, but if your mare is worth breeding there should always be at least a few contenders to breed her to. Therefore, there are a number of variables that have factored into my decision to breed to a particular stallion, including added fees and the indicators of possible extra hassles with the stallion owner.

IME, stallion owners who are quick to respond, offer discounts and generally do what they can to make it a positive experience for the mare owner are the ones that are best to deal with, ie. are most likely to send me semen when I need it on a weekend or asap. Thus, these are the SOs I choose to work with.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! Can’t imagine that there is only ONE stallion out there that fits the bill, ok, maybe if I already had a foal by him and really really loved what I got from that match, then I might be stuck on having only him.
And what others said, a couple hundred dollars here or there, nothing compared to mare care and vet fees and everything else you’ll be investing in making a foal.
And related to that is dealing with the stallion owner, because if you have a stallion who will only be available on limited days, or requires a lot of advanced notice for collection, or a stallion owner not willing to work with you on things, that can drive your vet bills through the roof trying to get a mare bred. When I bred last year, my costs per cycle in vet fees was more than any collection fee on the stallion end. I’ve been down the road before where we tried to breed a mare, had vet out to check for a follicle, he thought we had another 48 hours or more, so we didn’t order semen. 24 hours later, follicle was gone…now you’re out 2 vet visits, sedation, ultrasounds, and not even an attempt to get her in foal. Next cycle, vet came out, follicle was the same size as last time around (and again on a Friday!), well this time he’s no fool, time to order NOW, get it in TODAY. I called the stallion owner and hear “well, how big is your follicle? I have several people who want a collection today so I’m trying to decide who REALLY needs it and who can wait”. Um, yeah, so I can pay for another two wasted visits? Luckily stallion owner was reasonable when I told her how we’d missed out the last go round and she did ship that day, actually by air and we had semen at 8pm that night on the farm. Vet in that case was happy to meet us there and inseminate, and sure enough 24 hours would have been too late—mare did catch that time and we got a pretty filly out of it. (in this case vet was quite antsy to get the mare pregnant, due to the fact that his associate in the practice was having a much higher success rate at it that spring and he felt very threatened by how his clients were requesting the other vet)
I also think about the experience of the stallion owner too, who have they got collecting, does that stallion have to go off site to be collected, are there spots where hiccups can occur? If a stallion owner seems disorganized from the get go, what are they going to be like when you place that call saying collect him today and get it out to me.? Those things can cost me real money.

[MysticOakRanch]

Yeah, I bought one in a fundraiser auction once - a really nice Hanoverian stallion. They didn’t disclose the extra fees - I won’t do business w/ that stallion owner ever again. Booking fee (not disclosed), $500, collection fee, $375, shipping, $150 (I actually hauled my mare to the collection facility and left her there, it was cheaper then shipping), and it turned out his semen sucked! Expensive lesson, and I learned to ask questions about undisclosed fees after that.

Turned away from a big name stallion early in his breeding career because it was a $500 collection fee (plus container and shipping fees) - and glad I did so after seeing his offspring, all very heavy and earthbound.

While I agree that these costs are a small part of the total cost, they can add up quickly - why make it more expensive then it needs to be? Most “stallion stations” charge between $175 and $250 to collect - anything above that seems unfair.

[secretariat]

We don’t look at just stud fee, our cost/value analysis is total cost (for the foal, not just the fees) versus potential value of the foal. Frequently the equation says “buy a 3 year old.”

How the stallion owner chooses to break fees down is irrelevant to me.

[camohn]

[QUOTE=back in the saddle;7495965]
So the price of a stallion (fresh, frozen, live cover, etc…) is $xyz price for the stud fee.

Have you ever added up the other extra fees (in addition to stud fee) associated with stallion ‘A’ (which may include collection, shipping, frozen handling fees, container rental, container charging, etc… ) and gone to stallion ‘B’ because the other fees with stallion ‘A’ were higher than you wanted to pay?

If so, describe what extra fee(s) caused you to change your mind about using a stallion.

What $ amount in total extra fees is your do not exceed limit?[/QUOTE]

With Ai it is an assumed cost but one that varies widely. The stallion short list is based on the horse… But once there if the collection and shipping fees for one guy are75.00 and the other is 200+ then yes it is the dealbreaker. Worst collection fee per collection I have run across was 400.00 and I do flat out refuse to even consider that. To me 200 is top end of normal, especially if that does not include FedEx … Is just the collection fee. I too will not use m w f collection stallions

[stripes]

Fortunately there are many really nice stallions out there for us mare owners to choose from, making it easy to pass up the stallions that are attached to extra “greedy” fees. Fees like, “stallion handling”, “transport to vet clinic” and my personal favorite which may only exist in Arabian circles, “off day collection fee” have sent me elsewhere.

[clint]

What, pray tell, is an off day collection fee?

[Ticker]

I remember seeing a stallion fee for collection, shipping and a fee for driving to the airport. I kept looking.

[camohn]

From the SO end…what a facility charges varies. One local vet charges 75.00. Initially I used New Bolton and nearly 10 years ago they were 200. Since it was a top notch facility I went with then top
Of the line price. Until the totally absurd prices started getting tacked on. About that time there was an outbreak of salmonella At NB so they started charging to test the stallion for salmonella. Every single time he went there. Then there was the fee for filling out the shipping label. Not the shipping fee… They added a 15.00 fee to fill out the LABEL. And the kicker I had a hissy fit over: the videotaping fee. Now the reason for the video taping was to use it for teaching purposes at the school. If they want tape the collection hey fine I don’t care. But to BILL me for it? No way.the nebulous fees added up to an extra hundred bucks per collection. I stopped using them at that point since 300 a collection was far above the norm for the time/ no one was going to pay that. as a stallion owner I figure its part of the deal to haul him for the collection… It’s not some optional thing! I charged the mo the actual cost the collection facility charged me, the actual FedEx bill. That’s it. And a deposit on the shipping container if they used mine, refunded upon its return. People still actually stole the freezer cans though. I had nice new ones I bought… Containers were returned with gross rusty ones.,