Has anyone ever seen an improvement in their riding after going trainerless for an extended period of time?

[foursocks]

I think it depends on a lot of factors, such as one’s goals, one’s horse(s), and how one learns. At this point in my life I won’t ride with someone who doesn’t meet my high standards for both flatwork and jumping. What works for me is a balance of instruction and support without the rigidity of a top-to-bottom program.

My trainer (who was also a close friend) passed away last year very suddenly and I wish almost every day that he was around. He was brilliant and funny and understood horses and the fundamentals of dressage and jumping in a way that I haven’t quite found in anyone else. One of the best things about him was that he prepared me to show on my own. For me that is the measure of a good trainer: one who can help you reach a point where you can compete confidently by yourself. It is a necessity for me because I am a jumper but I train and board with eventers, so they are often not available to spend all day at a jumper show with me.

I have had so-so trainers in the past and now I work with a couple of excellent ones (who were mentored by my trainer and share his philosophy), and the goal is the same: get me to the point where I can go to a show by myself and manage everything confidently. I would rather have help at a show, but I want to be able to do without it, as that is usually the reality during eventing season.

At home, my trainers (one of whom also runs my barn and the other comes over for lessons), help me improve, give me homework to do, ride my jumper occasionally to give me feedback or help install a new button, and are there as a support, not a dictator. I trust both of them with me and my horse. If I didn’t leave each lesson feeling like I had learned something or gotten really solid practice that improved me and/or my horse I’d be looking elsewhere.

[beowulf]

It really depends on what your quality of instruction was before.

An instructor/trainer who wasn’t a good fit, is uneducated, questionable morals/judgment or a “shingle-type”, etc? Yeah, you’re better off going out on your own.

But a good instructor or trainer with expertise in your discipline? No, I don’t think there is any benefit to avoiding what they have to teach you.

@Renn_aissance hit the nail on the head with tips on how to be trainerless; it really requires you have a solid foundation and understanding of setting training goals and reaching them – as well as having a solid effectiveness of the aids. You need to have an open toolbox, especially if you are bringing along a green horse versus riding a horse confirmed at the level.

I’ll add something: Know your riding weaknesses, but don’t get into your head. To really improve, you need to be a self-starter that is diligent and self-aware. These aren’t buzzwords: without an eye on the ground to ‘fix’ tiny details, you can sometimes lose your position and your effectiveness overtime. You have to cognizant of your rides, analyzing what was good and what was bad - and sometimes without an eye on the ground it can be hard to see the whole picture. Every now and then I’ll ask my SO to film a ride of mine, so I can go back and see what I need work on in my position and my aids. And then you need to consistently apply it – every ride, every time you feel your hands get too low or your shoulders round. This is hard to do.

The largest challenge I’ve had as someone who has been “outside” of a program for the last 15 years is that I don’t tend to push my horse[s] as hard at home as I do under the expert eye of an instructor. This means that while my horses are very thoroughly brought along, it hasn’t been as quick as it would be in a program. If you’re okay with taking time, this is alright – but you have to be careful, because before you know it your green 5 y/o is still green at 7 and then at 13 is only doing middling levels in your chosen discipline… Horse years are golden, and don’t last forever. We only have so much time with each horse and it is truly amazing how quickly time passes by.

Another thing to consider is, if you keep your horses at home or outside of a program, you might not have access to the same training amenities as you would if you went to a trainer. I don’t just mean the perfect-footing ring where you can really focus on the quality of your transitions – things like poles and cavalettis and jumps are expensive and break down over time. Do you have access to these sorts of things, where you can jump a full course at home? Or do you need to truck out? There’s value in being with a program purely for the physical things it offers: a ring where you don’t need to fight the footing, easy access to jumps and courses, and access to venue-specific things like an XC course or trails.

My instructors know I operate on my own time. They are wonderfully accepting of the fact I am outside their orbit: I come to them once a month or so, and they give me homework – and I work hard on it. If I don’t hear in my next lesson that “wow, big improvement on XYZ”, I know I’ve really slacked off and let myself down. So you need to be hard on yourself too – but not in a way that damages your confidence or sets you back. You need to be visually seeing improvement – set a time-sensitive goal, and work towards it. Otherwise, you might find you just wade along when you’re totally ready to jump into the deep end.

I love not being in a program. I get to have my own agenda, bring my horse to my instructors when/if I have the time and budget for it… but it comes with trade-offs. You just have to figure out if they are worth it to you.

[FjordBCRF]

I went for about 16 years without a trainer while riding with a very experienced friend. I would say my riding improved a lot during that time, she has horse property and over those years I rode 4 different horses - OTTB, TB/PercheronX, and two Welsh cobs then went on to lease a Belgian mare the year before I bought Charlie. All very different and all needed different approaches that most definitely made me a better rider and horseperson.

With buying Charlie as a 3 year old last year and keeping him at a boarding barn, I started working with one of the trainers some of the other boarders use but not in a program type situation. Last year I started doing a lesson or two a month where she comes to me. I find the lessons the most helpful in making sure my approach with him being young is fair and when we run into things she gives me tools to help get through based on what she is seeing from him and me. Short of being good with a rider on his back, his under saddle training was rudimentary and he is the greenest horse I’ve worked with. This arrangement has been working out well for us! This year with Charlie dealing with laminitis in May, we are just getting back to lessons this week so we had a big break which was no big deal which I appreciated as well.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

It sounds like many of the things that bother you, like gadgets, mane-pulling, or “my way or no way” type trainers are more common to a very particular type of hunter-jumper “programs,” versus having access to coaching in general. I think there is a difference between being not “in a program” or at a barn in training, versus not having a trainer at all. Have you ever thought of trying coaches outside your discipline, like an eventer, who is more accustomed to people taking occasional lessons?

Like others have said, you can always fire a trainer or walk away. It sounds like you already have a long list of reasons why you don’t want a trainer, which may mean you don’t really want one, just think you should. If you approach it with that mindset, it’s probably not the best for you, the trainer, or your horse. Make a list of all the things that would make your excited about working with a good trainer. If it’s very short, it might be a sign you’re better off continuing to work on your own (and if it’s just jump height that is a concern, it certainly won’t be the end of the world to “stay low” a bit longer).

[DawgLady]

@Equkelly

anthropomorphic BS

I feel this. It’s one of my peeves. Read a book, people. Horses don’t even have developed frontal lobes. They don’t plot against us.

[findeight]

There is a difference between getting good quality instruction from, you know, somebody who knows more then you do and training rides from somebody with genuine experience advancing horses you lack and some JAW pontificating what you will do.

It greatly helps if a genuinely qualified instructor/ trainer can actually TEACH you to be independent.

These things are very hard to find in a trainer/instructor but they do exist. Finding one might require searching harder, broadening that search and thinking out of the box, including cross discipline solutions. The goal is to learn to THINK, problem solve and teach the horse to WANT TO do it for you.

The wording in this OP asks a very broad and general question about can you learn and teach a horse without a trainer. No, of course not, you need some help. But that doesn’t mean slap gadgets on without teaching you what, why and when and telling you to shut up and stay dumb.

Problem is finding the right instructor/trainer willing to develop you as an independent rider and help put solid basics on your horse without requiring you to surrender 100% of control your own horse. But its possible as those on here who are “trainerless” have found. They arent operating in a void, they can and do find help from these good teachers as needed without being in a “program”.

Something that may help is learning to watch and listen at shows and clinics in all disciplines. Maybe take some lessons on their horses Remember, the goal is expanding your knowledge of how the horse thinks and learns from the best teachers you have access to, not waste time and money on bad teaching and training because you think thats all there is. No its not ever all there is.

[Iride]

It wasn’t until I stopped riding with a trainer that I learned feel.

It’s really hard to when you have someone continuously talking /yelling/ instructing you. Downright impossible actually.

That also gives me no time to NOTICE all the subtleties my horse shows, both positive and negative. No time to hear him. Feel what he is doing, notice little reactions and changes. Give him a break when I know he needs one. Stop demanding his being in a frame with no break. Squeeze it all into a half hour or an hour of commands by the trainer. That’s not the horse’s terms.

Sometimes I’ll tack up, walk into the ring or the field/trail, then turn around and go back and untack. Just my way of letting my horse know it’s not always gonna be tack up and work.

I feel it is valuable to have a trainer on hand for lots of reasons and I do work with one as needed but again - it wasn’t until I stopped regular lessons that I really learned how to ride and become a sensitive rider.

[Renn_aissance]

@DawgLady

Horses don’t even have developed frontal lobes. They don’t plot against us.

I see you don’t have ponies.

[findeight]

[Jackie_Cochran]

My position deteriorated some when I stopped lessons.

However I HAD TO learn how to train a horse. My first horse was green, green, green when I got him, and lessons were sporadic after the first few months.

My next horse had been ruined through bad riding. I had to figure out all the solutions myself with immense help from books on equitation mostly by ex-cavalrymen.

Then I had to train some horses to saddle, on my own (my husband did hang around at first in case I got bucked off.)

Then the drunk driver drove head-on into my car. It took me several years to get back to riding regularly.

With my MS I went back to lessons on lesson horses, and I finally found a riding teacher that did not absolutely DEMAND that I abuse their horse.

My riding teacher puts me on horses that are not on the regular rotation schedule for lessons for various reasons, physical reasons, mental reasons, and to fill in the gaping holes in their training. Because I had to train my own horses without any help or eyes on the ground I had solutions for various problems, solutions that worked. Because I had accumulated a decent library of equitation books and knew how to use them I found solutions to new problems.

I learned to LISTEN TO THE HORSE!

I think my riding teacher enjoys seeing me get her lesson horses past some sticky places that make them less than ideal riding horses for the discerning rider, while at the same time improving them (usually) for her regular lesson students. The not-so-great lesson horses I ride improve, mainly because long ago I learned how to EXPLAIN what I was asking for to the horse. Many of these horses had no idea at all about what I wanted, and I gently explained myself to them until they understood me.

Better rider? Eh, not so much as far as a “good position” was concerned. Greatly as far as learning to train a horse to become a reliable calm riding horse.

[Scribbler]

As a kid I learned to ride very well, mostly Western, through long hours in the saddle, and some books. I definitely learned feel.

I only had lessons when I returned as an adult. They were invaluable. But I’ve drifted away again in large part because my main mare is unpredictably ring sour and you never know when a lesson is a waste of time because she’s going to suck back.

I’d say for more advanced riders who are not seriously competing, periodic lessons are still super valuable. People who ride in isolation do develop position flaws and other eccentricities. Even older coaches have this happen if they stop continuing education.

If you are competing you do want a closer relationship to a coach to keep things polished up.

I think if you are an advanced rider it’s very useful to approach a coach saying here’s where we are at, I feel I need help with xx, of course watch me ride and see if there’s any things that need tweaking, etc. Make it more collaborative. It’s a different relationship than being a kid in a program.

Absolutely feel with a given horse improves when you can focus on the ride alone. Search for a coach that can hold back a bit and doesn’t feel the need to fill the air with constant noise. You don’t need to be talked through every stride. Have them watch and then come back to a halt and have them give feedback.

[DawgLady]

Haha! Touche!

[S1969]

@Iride

It wasn’t until I stopped riding with a trainer that I learned feel.

It’s really hard to when you have someone continuously talking /yelling/ instructing you. Downright impossible actually.

That also gives me no time to NOTICE all the subtleties my horse shows, both positive and negative. No time to hear him. Feel what he is doing, notice little reactions and changes.

I am comparatively a terrible rider in comparison to most in this group, but I found the best trainer I ever worked with was a western trainer who came to my house. By that point in time I was already losing enthusiasm for H/J riding and lessons in general…but I think that someone constantly yelling “heels down” and such slowed my progress. That and the fact that most of the lessons I took were cookie-cutter lesson patterns without any feedback loop between rider-goals-progress. (2 laps walk, 2 laps trot, 2 laps 2-point…etc.) Not a lot of - “hey, that wasn’t great. Let’s see 2 more, but try this…feel for this…”)

Had I started with a trainer who really didn’t care about H/J equitation, but just riding the horse you were on, I am sure I would be a better rider today. I may go back to it, but I’ll definitely think hard about trainers and be much quicker to move on if I feel I’m not getting enough from them.

[foursocks]

Thinking about this some more: no, I have never seen an improvement in my riding skills when I have been trainerless. Usually I revert to bad habits, actually. If I have a trainer who isn’t very good, which has happened a couple of times, it’s better to be without that person, no doubt. But the impetus for me has always been to find someone better, because I can’t teach myself and my horse what I don’t know. And, there are always things that I don’t catch, or that I forget about, that a good trainer will see.

If you can’t find someone better then that is more of a problem, but as others have pointed out: the best riders in the world still have eyes on the ground and still take lessons.

[B-burg_Dressage]

As @foursocks said, you just need to find the right instructor (easier said than done, I know).

I’m not sure I could ever be part of a “program” either. Even if it wasn’t on purpose, I would feel pressure to push a little harder and faster in some ways that I don’t when I’m at home.

But I’ve been with my current instructor for almost three years now and my riding and training has improved a ton. I am an even more quiet and thoughtful rider with her help than I was riding alone. I only lesson about 10 times per year. She agrees with my philosophy of quiet and steady, not escalating with bigger bits or spurs or gadgets. She doesn’t participate in the local gossip and trash talk. She is a genuinely good person who cares about animals and treats them fairly. That if you AND your horse aren’t having an ok time, there is something wrong. These instructors do exist and can make you and your horse even more in harmony while seeing progress.

And if you go out looking and are open with what you want, I think that does increase your chances of finding the right fit. And as @lenapesadie said–learn to say no and be ok with it. It’s taken me a long time, but I’ll stop a ride with someone else (I still do clinics with other people a few times a year because variety is the spice of life) if my horse is done. I’ve had the person on the ground be surprised or even frustrated by that, but whatever. I know my horse and he tells me when he’s done. It’s not often, so I have learned to listen when he does.

I wish you luck though! It can be a headache finding one that meshes well.