Has anyone ever seen an improvement in their riding after going trainerless for an extended period of time?

[Equkelly]

Hi all,
I’ve been trainerless for a few years now because I’ve been bringing along a youngster. She’s now 5 and is in consistent work so I’d like to get back to lessons but I’m looking at old pictures and videos and my eq has gotten A LOT better while I’ve been on my own. I’ve also never had a lesson on this mare but she’s coming along great and is super easy to ride.

I know I need to start lessons again because I have no business jumping higher on my own but I feel very protective over the progress we’ve made and I don’t want to bring someone else in to jeopardize things.

Does anyone have advice on how to get over this? My mare is also a suspected PSSM2/MFM horse and I have to be very careful with how much I ask. I’ve just really enjoyed doing my own thing, and I’ve had some terrible trainers growing up so I’m super picky about who I work with.

I don’t even want to move my horse into a full training barn or anything, I’m definitely keeping her where she is because I think we BOTH do better in the low key environment. I’d love to just haul in for lessons or even bring someone out to my barn but I think I’m going to struggle giving up even a little bit of control. Has anyone been through this?

[StormyDay]

There’s a group of us on COTH without dedicated trainers.
I stopped having a dedicated trainer almost 10 years ago (I can’t believe it’s been that long!)
I personally have achieved more without a trainer than with one. I grew up in a ‘program’ and that’s all I knew until I left to come out to the east coast.

For a while I had the most amazing trainer I would trailer into once a week, but she’s now 6 hours away from me.
Ive tried different trainers over the years but most didn’t click, or I didn’t agree with their practices. It’s amazing how many trainers still pull out the draw reins and tie downs, or pull out some crazy torture device bit from their tack trucks…

I get by with trying to clinic with people when they are near (though I haven’t in 2 years due to COVID cancelling most of the clinics). But my biggest thing I do is video myself and watch it. And I decide what I need to change, and the next ride I do.

If you are concerned about having a clash with the trainers due to differences in training opinion, I’d suggest going to clinics instead to get back in the swing of things.

Why are you concerned about jumping higher? Safety? Or training?
If it’s safety get an Apple Watch to detect your falls, and if you are still concerned pay some barn kid to stand there and watch you ride.

[lenapesadie]

So for me, the biggest thing has been sharpening up my ability to say “No”.

No, I’m not gonna push my horse for another canter depart / jump / handstand. No, my horse doesn’t understand the fundamentals of that exercise well enough to string them all together. No, we aren’t going to compete in the last class I registered for today. No, we aren’t putting a martingale on him. No, I’m not pulling his mane. No, I’m not lending him to your prize pony jock so she can show him for the weekend.

No. No. No.

If you’re not ready to say no, you’ll say yes. And then later you’ll regret it. Once you get the hang of saying no, everything is peachy. You say yes to the things you want / agree with and say no to the things you don’t.

[Equkelly]

@StormyDay

It’s amazing how many trainers still pull out the draw reins and tie downs, or pull out some crazy torture device bit from their tack trucks…

This is EXACTLY my fear. It’s not like I’m a barefoot bridleless guru or anything but I think I am definitely softer in my approach and don’t believe in a lot of aids. I still ride in a snaffle and I do use small blunt spurs but yea I’m afraid I’m going to put myself out there just for someone to tell me to throw draw reins on my MFM horse when I’ve finally gotten her actually collecting nicely.

@StormyDay

Why are you concerned about jumping higher? Safety? Or training?
If it’s safety get an Apple Watch to detect your falls, and if you are still concerned pay some barn kid to stand there and watch you ride.

Nope not safety, there’s usually someone at the barn and even when there’s not, the barn is right on this road where there’s a million cyclists going by all the time so someone would find me. I’m honestly just not advanced enough to be jumping bigger jumps on my own. I grew up riding mostly western, and have a ton of experience starting horses but over fences-wise I’m an intermediate rider. Ive been in h/j land for my adult life so I’m not that green or anything. I’m currently jumping small 2’ courses on my own and it’s going fine but I’m going to reach that limit of what I’m comfortable doing on my own pretty soon here. It just wouldn’t be fair to my young horse for me to be jumping her around bigger jumps with no trainer.

[sportyspicepony]

Just try some different trainers out and see who you end up liking before committing to a regular lesson with them! You could also try to take lessons on their horses first to feel them out or observe a lesson or two. Most good trainers hopefully will spend the first couple of lessons trying to get to know you and your horse too, so I don’t think you will risk completely changing your horse’s training by just trying a few lessons.

But definitely agreed with the post about saying no, i feel like it’s easy to end up in this weird power imbalance with your trainer and that’s why the relationships can get so toxic and scarring. But if you’re able to just set firm boundaries from the start it should help!

[Equkelly]

@lenapesadie

So for me, the biggest thing has been sharpening up my ability to say “No”.

No, I’m not gonna push my horse for another canter depart / jump / handstand. No, my horse doesn’t understand the fundamentals of that exercise well enough to string them all together. No, we aren’t going to compete in the last class I registered for today. No, we aren’t putting a martingale on him. No, I’m not pulling his mane. No, I’m not lending him to your prize pony jock so she can show him for the weekend.

No. No. No.

This is a good point too. I will need to be able to say “No” a lot because like I said she’s likely MFM and I know her limits better than any trainer is going to so in that regard, I need to find someone that’s going to respect my boundaries.

But then my struggle is, if I have to tell you “NO I’m not putting my horse in draw reins, or NO I’m not putting my horse in a martingale, or NO I’m not shaving her whiskers, then I don’t trust your opinion on anything and I’m not spending my money listening to another word.

I guess I just know that I need to be able to say no but I also feel like ideally, I want someone on the same page as me so I won’t have to and Idk if that person exists in my area.

[lenapesadie]

Of course they don’t exist. No two people have exactly the same philosophy!

Saying no without judging the person you’re saying no to is hard. I like to imagine I want a trainer for XYZ, the fact that we differ on ABC is irrelevant.

Basically, I give up zero control. It’s all on my terms. Like you, this is my precious baby that I’ve started myself and I know him inside and out! I’m looking out for him in a way that a trainer that sees him two hours a week simply isn’t able to.

Sure, lots of trainers enjoy their positions as cult leaders with hordes of mindless devotees, but there are plenty out there that have better mental health.

Trainers that get their panties in a wad over me saying no get fired. Lalala. It’s no skin off my nose.

[StormyDay]

I totally get that. I ran into trainers who used too many gadgets, but I also found there were a lot that we just didn’t get along idealistically either. They weren’t bad trainers, it’s just not how I train my horses. I know it’s not just me, because there are some trainers I did adore.

I rarely jumped over 2’6” in the program I was in. We were in the Hunter world and it wasn’t necessary. Since then ive taught myself how to jump bigger jumps and harder courses. With the help of clinicians and the occasional lesson. So you can do it!

[StormyDay]

I’m hoping Emily comes along and gives her input on her and her horse Cudo. She’s out there winning on some really big jumper tracks and she has no trainer, she does it by herself and hauls out occasionally.
I would tag her but I can never remember her user name

[hillary_again]

@Equkelly, I think it’s helpful if you are very clear about the help you want. Sounds like you have already got that figured out. I think having a trainer to support jumping is very important - it’s tougher to observe exactly what’s happening when on the approach, over the jump, after, at the end of the ring, … And then yes, just say no when you need to. Don’t think twice about that part. You know your horse.

[Equkelly]

@lenapesadie

Of course they don’t exist. No two people have exactly the same philosophy!

Saying no without judging the person you’re saying no to is hard. I like to imagine I want a trainer for XYZ, the fact that we differ on ABC is irrelevant.

I think for some things I can separate ABC and XYZ but then there’s other things, that to me just feel like red flags to bigger problems. (This could also be because of my past issues growing up with a trainer that I was 100% devoted to and I didn’t realize that they actually didn’t know what they were talking about until I was an adult.)

Like mane pulling, I’m not categorically opposed to. I don’t pull my mare’s mane because she’s sensitive and she’s made it very clear it’s painful so I don’t do it but I obviously wouldn’t lose respect for a trainer if they pulled their horses manes. But there are other things that I am pretty categorically opposed to. Like any anthropomorphic BS, or just trainers with a total lack of empathy for the horses.

I don’t know if I’m making sense. Maybe I’m just worried about scenarios that haven’t happened yet because I’m anxious about it! But I really appreciate the advice!

[LakeEffect]

Yes, my riding has gotten better without a trainer. I am 100% an amateur, I make mistakes, I’m not perfect, and I do run into challenges from time to time. But I don’t always give myself enough credit. I’m a fairly sympathetic rider who knows my limits and doesn’t set myself, or my horse, up to fail.

I’m not incredibly brave, and nothing makes this worse than a trainer yelling from across the ring about how my turn should have started sooner. Like, I know that. I still did it. A bit of a chip to the warmup fence didn’t kill anyone, I’ll just try again. But when I am trying to meet someone’s expectations rather than actually using my tools to ride, I fall apart. I realize this is probably NOT the issue you’re dealing with, but it’s my own struggle.

I’d ask yourself what exactly it is you’re looking for the trainer to help you with. I think you mentioned height. What are you expecting the trainer on the ground to help you with? Added height is really nothing more than testing your fundamentals a little differently, if your horse has the scope. Is it a ground person to raise the fences slowly as you go, to help walk the course, to call the ambulance (mostly kidding )? I think going in with a goal/strategy might be useful.

Last comment - take everything with a grain of salt because they don’t know your horse like you do. But, seek the nuggets. Their might be one thing you take from the lesson and experiment with in the weeks after, even if you throw the rest out. Just my thoughts!

[Equkelly]

@LakeEffect

But when I am trying to meet someone’s expectations rather than actually using my tools to ride, I fall apart. I realize this is probably NOT the issue you’re dealing with, but it’s my own struggle.

No this is me too. I think that’s why I’m doing so well right now. It’s just me riding and there’s not even any other HJ people at my barn so I never feel like I’m being judged. I’m just focusing on being effective in my riding and training. What’s crazy is that my position has never been as good as it is now even when I was in a regular lesson program doing no stirrups and all sorts of crazy flat exercises on multiple different horses 5 days a week. Now I’m just riding one horse 3 or 4 days a week and half the time we’re messing around doing trail rides or bridleless/ tackless rides. It’s not just me either, I sent a video of me riding to an old friend in another state and she’s known me for years and said my eq and my eye is significantly better than she’s ever seen me ride.

I also think without a trainer I’m kind of forced to do my own homework, which isn’t something I’ve had to do in the past but I’m not working with any one so I’m having to read more, audit more clinics, watch more training videos, and what not.

This has been helpful though. I think the biggest reason I feel like I need a trainer is because that’s just what I’m supposed to do because it’s the norm but maybe I need to not think like that. I feel like if I took my horse to a show tomorrow I’d have serious imposter syndrome that I’m not qualified to be doing so much on my own.

[Renn_aissance]

@StormyDay

I’m hoping Emily comes along and gives her input on her and her horse Cudo. She’s out there winning on some really big jumper tracks and she has no trainer, she does it by herself and hauls out occasionally.
I would tag her but I can never remember her user name

Hey @Xctrygirl, you’ve been summoned to the principal’s office

OP, I think if you’re going to fly solo successfully, you need a couple of things.

1. You need a good solid foundation, and I think it needs to have been instilled by multiple people so that you have lots of approaches/tools in your toolbox when you get stymied by whatever roadblock you inevitably hit. I am grateful to several trainers whose voices I still hear in my head when I flat.

2. You need to be proactive about developing yourself in other ways than hands on tutorial. Read, watch videos and shows, and think critically about what you’re seeing and how you might apply that to your horse.

3. When you do seek help, have a rubric in your head for the problems you’re looking to solve, and be clear and transparent with what you’re looking for. “I’m having issues with acceptance of the right rein, I’ve tried XYZ, and I want to take a few lessons to focus on that but after that I’m going to go back home and you won’t see me again for 6 months.” Some people will tell you they can’t help you (if they think that your goal, your timeframe, and how they can get you there are incompatible.) Some will say they won’t (if the temporary nature of your desired relationship, and their business model, are incompatible.) If you’re frank about this, you stand a better chance of finding someone who can help.

4. You need to be observant. Go to shows and watch the warm up ring all day. See whose horses are flatting in draw reins and whose horses are exercising 4 times in the ring before they go to show. Watch how trainers warm up their horses. All the same? Individualizing the warm up to the animal? Watch how they treat their students. Use this info to find out whom you want to approach for your problems in (3). Apply this same principle to clinics. I’m at the point where I won’t ride with someone whose style I don’t know, I would rather audit once first to decide if I want to ride with them. For some teaching styles I’m a better student from the ground, where I can see impact of instruction on multiple riders, than from the saddle.

5. Finally, you need to keep an open mind. A good teacher will push your limits a little. If you do things by yourself most of the time you’ll know how the horse reacts to the way you usually do it, but your trainer will ask you to do it differently, or harder, or put more pressure on your youngster to teach her to think her way through a more complicated problem, or what have you. You need to be able to shelve the inevitable reaction of “that won’t work because” and know when to give it a try, versus “I’m concerned about this because X” (maybe X is your mare’s condition, or the last time you tried that exercise she panicked and flew backwards.) When we are our horse’s only advocates it can be hard to separate what we do best vs. what we do because that’s what we know, and that can be a hard dynamic to think through when you’re working with someone else for a problem or polish.

[lenapesadie]

Anxiety will do that. It’s all good though. You are the client, you can fire anyone you hire. You don’t have to hire anyone to start with! The world is your oyster!

[173north]

Do you have an experienced friend in the area that would come hang out, set jumps, and be your eyes on the ground in a laid-back way? That could be a nice bridge between flying totally solo and bringing on a trainer. If you’re comfy at 2’ and trying to get comfy around 2’6, truthfully… you probably just need someone on the ground to tell you you’re doing fine, sit up, add leg, you chipped that because you cut the corner, etc.

I’m trainerless at the moment but bringing along a green pony with a friend. We are both lifelong horsepeople (she’s got a few decades on me) and it’s been fun and interesting - I’ve realized I have a lot of tools in my toolbox and I don’t want to “be in a program” right now, but having someone with a good eye on the ground to confirm what I’m feeling and bounce ideas off is huge. It doesn’t have to be a formal client/trainer relationship for you to learn from each other… I’d love if “we’re bringing along our own horses and we’re helping each other out and sharing our knowledge” was more of a norm in H/J land. But that’s probably wishful thinking!

[Alterration]

I am trainerless. I’ve tried a few times to be in a program and it’s never worked out. And, oddly enough, I’ve been validated enough over the last 30 years that when I work on my own my horses get better. It’s no great magic, I’m not some guru nor even a particularly talented rider, it’s that for me working in the “lab” of my own experiences with my horses is much more fruitful than someone yelling directions at me from across the ring.

Helps that I’ve had a lot of experience, sure, but it’s also just…I focus better on the horse when I’m focusing entirely on the horse. I can deconstruct and improve after the ride. I really like the model of think, act, measure, and tweak. I can’t do that if someone’s yelling at me to move my left hand (or what have you). It interrupts the whole flow and feel, which is super important to me, and then I get all anxious and can’t ride my way out of a paper sack.

That’s different than not getting help or thinking one knows it all. I get help from a ton of places, including online learning, clinics, video…I watch myself so much on video so that I can see and help to coach myself. I’ll slow the video down and scrub back and forth over a tricky spot or right before something happens to see exactly what happened and what the result was.

I have trusted people who I will share clips with if I’m struggling with something in particular or if I see something I don’t fully understand. And I use a diary to write about my rides, what went right, what went wrong, questions, things that don’t make sense to me. The whole shebang.

I know it’s unusual in H/J land to not have a regular trainer and be in a program, but honestly, I’ve learned so much more the way I’ve done it. Would I have reached competition success faster in a program? Sure, probably. But would I have learned as much as I’ve learned along the way? Nope. There’s absolutely no way.

I know you have strong convictions, and I respect that (no matter that we haven’t always agreed). Honor that about yourself. Every time something has gone poorly for me in the equestrian world it’s been because I didn’t honor my own knowledge and senses of what was right or wrong for my horses. Every time. Without fail. Thankfully horses are pretty resilient, and I’ve been able to undo that damage, but man, at least if I’m misguided and screw up it’s my own screw up when I follow my own convictions. I don’t then have the guilt of “I knew better”. Not knowing is an innocent mistake. Following despite knowing…phooo boy that’s no fun. Leads to bad things, always.

I’m sure you’ll get this sussed out. Get a pivo or pixio. Find people you do respect and trust. Use your lab. Your horses are your biggest teachers in this whole thing. You’ve got this. And remember to relax and enjoy the journey!

[StormyDay]

Thank you! I can never remember her user name haha

[grace61271]

I was in a similar situation a year ago. I was riding and showing my older mare on my own. I bred her and started the baby myself - did all the ground work, started him under saddle, started him over fences, took him to his first shows etc. The horse has far more talent than I care to ever jump so I always knew eventually I’d want someone else to take over jumping and showing. When he was 6 I felt I was ready to slowly increase his work load and ask more of him. I found a trainer through a friend and we spoke over the phone then I went and met him in person - watched him teach and ride. ( I may have also fb stalked and watched every video I could find of him and his clients).

When I met with him I basically said, “I have a 6 year old stallion I bred and started. He will always live with me, I will ride him at home, I will be present for every single ride and show. I have final decision on every piece of equipment used, methods used, classes and shows entered, etc. For me the most important thing is the horse’s health and happiness. He will never be for sale, he is part of my family. The horse will always come first. I don’t care if it’s the Olympics, if the horse isn’t right in anyway, he gets scratched. I have no interest in the young horse classes, there is no rush or pressure. If you’re okay with this then let’s try. If the horse likes you and is happy, then you have the ride indefinitely. If at any point the horse says no, we will have a discussion about how to proceed”

Like you, with age, time, and experience I’ve gotten “softer” in that I won’t use gimmicks, harsh bits, etc. I am extremely protective over him and rightfully so, they can’t advocate for themselves. And it has turned out to be one of the best things I’ve done.The trainer is very kind, rides the horse beautifully, he is going so well. The trainer is very kind to the horses and is very careful in how much to ask of them, when to move them up, etc. We ride similarly and work very well together. I am beyond thrilled with how the horse is going and am so excited for his future.

I think just having that very frank conversation from the beginning set the expectations clearly for both parties. I think too it depends on your ultimate goals with the horse but from personal experience, what you want to do is very doable. And if someone is not okay with it, you don’t want that person around your horse anyway.

[sportyspicepony]

@Equkelly

Like mane pulling, I’m not categorically opposed to. I don’t pull my mare’s mane because she’s sensitive and she’s made it very clear it’s painful so I don’t do it but I obviously wouldn’t lose respect for a trainer if they pulled their horses manes. But there are other things that I am pretty categorically opposed to. Like any anthropomorphic BS, or just trainers with a total lack of empathy for the horses.

I think there are a lot of trainers I wouldn’t go to for horse management advice who still have something to offer to help me improve my riding. On some levels yes obviously a total lack of empathy for the horse will translate to their training style, but you just have to be the judge of that when you ride with someone.

For example I take some lessons with a dressage trainer in my barn who was kinda dismissive of my horse’s resistance to going forward and kinda seemed to believe it was a behavioral issue, and I’m 100% sure it’s physical so I am pursuing additional diagnostics with my vet. It doesn’t mean I won’t continue taking lessons with her once it’s all figured out, bc she still is 1) eyes on the ground which are always helpful and 2) she does know more about dressage than me, she just doesn’t know my horse better than me.