I use a little S hack and my mare does beautifully in it- it is certainly not a step back in her training. It allows her to eat and drink freely on trail which is a huge plus and she responds to a feather touch on it. It’s been noticed on several endurance horses coming into checks that their pulse will drop quicker if you remove the bit from their mouth and I’ve noticed on my mare that her HR is lower in general when riding in a hack vrs a bit.
[QUOTE=GrandLiena;8430208]
She doesn’t have an issue with a bit, I have a bit that I ride her in regularly that she responds very well to, she doesn’t pull (anymore). I was more talking about how in a hackamore I cant really give the subtle cues that I’m looking for, and the only thing I can really do with the hack is to pull her one way or the other. Which is obviously not what I want. So is this just something I need to train her to respond to? [/QUOTE]
A bit gives you much more subtlety than a hackamore. If your horse has no issue with the bit why are you trying to fix a problem with a hackamore?
You CAN train your horse to be more responsive to the shifting of your weight or to voice cues, but IME, the bitless solutions are not as subtle.
The horse that I rode bitless was extremely tuned into my seat – I could turn him by stepping into my stirrup or half halt using my thighs and back. IME, riding bitless forces you to ride less off your hands because they are simply not as effective.
This seems to be more of a rider problem than a horse problem.
[QUOTE=Bogie;8430359]
A bit gives you much more subtlety than a hackamore. If your horse has no issue with the bit why are you trying to fix a problem with a hackamore?
You CAN train your horse to be more responsive to the shifting of your weight or to voice cues, but IME, the bitless solutions are not as subtle.
The horse that I rode bitless was extremely tuned into my seat – I could turn him by stepping into my stirrup or half halt using my thighs and back. IME, riding bitless forces you to ride less off your hands because they are simply not as effective.[/QUOTE]
Isn’t this how you should be riding anyway?? Your seat and your legs should always be your primary aids. I spent 2 years riding under an FEI dressage judge and one of his favorite things to drill into us was “you ask with your seat and your leg and your hand says thank you”.
[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8430446]
Isn’t this how you should be riding anyway?? Your seat and your legs should always be your primary aids. I spent 2 years riding under an FEI dressage judge and one of his favorite things to drill into us was “you ask with your seat and your leg and your hand says thank you”.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but most people are too dependent on their hands. It makes sense as we use our hands for everything!
However, there are some instances where just riding with your seat and legs isn’t enough. For example, I foxhunt. With the exception of my Trakehner, who was fine hunting bitless, I am loathe to ride first flight without a bit :). My OTTB would love it if I did! I have ridden him bitless but not at speed.
Would I school dressage in a ring bitless? Sure. I can ride him off a neck rope in a ring. W/T/C, figures, no problem! Galloping full tilt after a pack of hounds? He would follow the hounds without any input from me.
Alright, lets put an end to this right here. There was never a problem to begin with. My mare is perfect on a bit, or without. She is still learning, having been practically started from scratch seven months ago, I cannot ride her solely on leg cues yet. (almost there) I don’t pull on my mare, my mare does not pull on me, all I wanted to know, was if a lunge cavesson made a good bitless bridle. Is that so much to ask? I want to use a bitless bridle on my mare. That is no one elses decision but mine and my mares. This is ridiculous.
By the way, I can humbly say that I was wrong about hackamores. Some of you were right by saying that like any tool a horse has to be trained to respond to them. I tried one on my mare last night and after some fussy confusion she responded about as well as if she had a bit in her mouth. So I will have a few options to play with once the cavesson gets here, but I guess I will have to find out for myself what is going to be best to use on the trails. Which is what I would have done anyways, but it’d have been nice to have had some extra knowledge. Thanks anyways.
[QUOTE=Bogie;8430359]
A bit gives you much more subtlety than a hackamore. If your horse has no issue with the bit why are you trying to fix a problem with a hackamore?
You CAN train your horse to be more responsive to the shifting of your weight or to voice cues, but IME, the bitless solutions are not as subtle.
The horse that I rode bitless was extremely tuned into my seat – I could turn him by stepping into my stirrup or half halt using my thighs and back. IME, riding bitless forces you to ride less off your hands because they are simply not as effective.[/QUOTE]
This is ultimately the end goal, for me to not have to use my reins, and I did king of have that idea that the bitless would force her to go off of more of the leg cues, I’m glad someone else had the same thought. Thank you.
[QUOTE=tabula rashah;8430301]
I use a little S hack and my mare does beautifully in it- it is certainly not a step back in her training. It allows her to eat and drink freely on trail which is a huge plus and she responds to a feather touch on it. It’s been noticed on several endurance horses coming into checks that their pulse will drop quicker if you remove the bit from their mouth and I’ve noticed on my mare that her HR is lower in general when riding in a hack vrs a bit.[/QUOTE]
MY mare is just plainly less stressed on the trails without a bit, responsive or not.And that is a good point, we go out for the entire day when we trail ride and obviously the bit is something we have to work around when we stop to feed and water them. Thank you
Buy this book
Adventures Unbridled -Moira Williams
it is from the late 50’s -early 60’s.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Unbridled-M-Williams/dp/B00E62Q1R4
Probably available used in the USA.
She trained several horses bitless and using hand signals on their necks and manes. She retained a bitless noseband setup as ‘emergency correction’.
She show jumped, hunted and hacked out.
You could use something like this with added brow and throatlatch
http://www.bigdweb.com/Walsh-Beta-Caveson/productinfo/1365W/
I start my youngsters in one of these;
http://www.buckarooleather.com/shop/headstalls-sidepulls/sidepull-headstalls/buckaroo-pro-sidepull-stainless-detail
It is only as goods as the hands on the reins.
A lunging cavesson does not make a good bitless bridle.
I usually trail ride in one of these. My horses are broke, broke, broke in the face and are definitely seat and leg horses. I have not had an issue with control or stopping in this. I also like it because I can tie safely in it when we stop.
[QUOTE=GrandLiena;8433521]
MY mare is just plainly less stressed on the trails without a bit, responsive or not.And that is a good point, we go out for the entire day when we trail ride and obviously the bit is something we have to work around when we stop to feed and water them. Thank you[/QUOTE]
OK, but do you want her stressed, or do you want her unresponsive?
(The answer is simple – neither!)
You can always put a rope halter on under the bridle or simply have a noseband on that you can use as a halter, and remove the bridle to feed and water. Of course, if you are stopping at streams for water, this does not work.
[QUOTE=RPM;8434428]
OK, but do you want her stressed, or do you want her unresponsive?
(The answer is simple – neither!)[/QUOTE]
Right. She can always learn to be responsive, but being a rescue, if teaching her not to be stressed is something I can fix with an equipment change, done.
I use a side pull bridle from Running Bear. It’s basically a glorified halter with rings for the bit. My horse loves it. I clip a bit to it for arena work and use it bit less for trails.
www.halfcircleranch.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=230&idcatagory=20
www.halfcircleranch.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=199&idcatagory=21
This just attaches to your headstall. Leave your bit on or not.
www.halfcircleranch.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=203&idcatagory=85
She can add an extra ring and you can hang a bit using bit snaps. Then you can use two reins, and help your horse with the transition to bitless.
This business is wonderful to work with.
