Has anyone here clicker trained a horse to trailer load?

[atr]

Just that, really. I have a horse that, due to prior traumatic experience, isn’t loading.

I’m working on gaining his trust back (yes, I know this sounds black stallion-ish, but he really is scared, poor guy, and we’ve tried the “make the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy” approach, the “wave a bag on a stick behind him” approach, the “it’s a leading problem” approach, etc., etc., and I have professional help.)

I can lure him on with food, whence he gets a big old fuss made of him, but he’s too quick and wary for me to nip round the back and get the butt bar done up, and I suspect that the end of the world would be nigh if I did…

So I was pondering clicker training. I have Kurland’s book and will re read it, but was wondering what experiences others had with using it for this purpose.

[GraceLikeRain]

If you can lure him on with food can you feed him on it. If he backs off, no big deal, quietly lead him back up. Keep repeating until you can move around inside the trailer, touch him, etc. without him feeling pressured into trying to back out. If you can get to a point where he elects to stay on long enough for you to walk around, then you don’t have to worry about beating him to the butt bar.

No experience with clicker training but it seems like it could be a viable option if you feel comfortable with timing.

[Desert_Topaz]

I tried to clicker train my horse… she was scared of the clicker Seriously. It was almost comical.

[brody]

I don’t lure. I do shape. I have shaped to load. Like all shaping reward placement and timing is critical. Moved 6 horses this fall 3 of whom had reps as bad loaders. Shaping worked for all of them. Total loading time was about an hour with one horse taking 40 mins or more of that time.

[paulaedwina]

I haven’t used CT for trailer loading, but did use CT to introduce the deadly horse blanket to Fella who apparently had never been blanketed previously. CT is my go-to for this kind of training. I don’t think it sounds “Black Stallion Syndrome” at all. Zoo animals are clicker trained for crying out loud.

Paula

[stb]

My first horse was truly frightened of the trailer. I parked the trailer in her pasture and fed her from it. At the beginning I put her bucket of food just behind the open trailer door, moving it just inside the door after a while and then eventually all the way in. She could get out any time she wanted, as I never closed the door behind her, just let her go in there and eat. It worked great. After she lost her fear of the trailer we worked on just getting in and out for practice. She turned out to be a good loader, in the end.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=brody;7956950]
I don’t lure. I do shape. I have shaped to load. Like all shaping reward placement and timing is critical. Moved 6 horses this fall 3 of whom had reps as bad loaders. Shaping worked for all of them. Total loading time was about an hour with one horse taking 40 mins or more of that time.[/QUOTE]

Can you expand on this? Clicker training would be shaping the behavior too - so maybe you can explain how you shaped the behavior.

I have two bad loaders - both used to be good until they stopped traveling by trailer on any regular basis. This is our project once it’s not -10F. I haven’t decided yet which approach to start with, since the last time we loaded the one mare (to come home from the clinic) it was traumatic for us all.

[clanter]

We have Morgans, no clicker needed just tell them to load, they walk-in and stand by the ties. Upload, say way…just undo head and tell them to back out.

The big training process was to take one that would and showed the newbie… job done

Now the TB mare, she can just stay home.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=clanter;7957102]
We have Morgans, no clicker needed just tell them to load, they walk-in and stand by the ties. Upload, say way…just undo head and tell them to back out. [/QUOTE]

Yes, well, that’s what we all want, obviously. But…don’t have…

[Hunterkid]

I prefer to send them in, not lead them. This is also useful bc you can easily shut the butt bar behind them. I would do a lot of sending practice on the lead rope before you even introduce the trailer. Then it is just patience. If you let them learn this at their own pace, they will learn it better.

Let them sniff the trailer and move one step at a time. I would not lure them in with food, but it can be a reward once they get in.

[heronponie]

Yes. It works, but my suggestion is to use low value treats (like plain hay cubes) because a really high value treat can encourage a horse to work beyond its threshold (aka, beyond the point that he’s likely to freak out). Same thing happens when you use high value treats to lure onto a trailer… you can get the horse on there, but they’ve reached too far beyond their comfort zone and will often rocket straight off the back again… you know what I mean.

To shape loading with a clicker, here’s what I would do. OP probably already knows the first few steps from Kurland’s work, but for the sake of being thorough:

First acclimate the horse to the sound of the clicker. Keep in mind that this is similar to the sound we use to teach horses to GO (clucking) so they aren’t automatically going to know it means “yay, food!”. So spend some time AWAY from the trailer just doing click/treat, click/treat, click/treat. The horse doesn’t have to do anything at this point, you’re just establishing a connection between the sound and the food.

(I would probably use the clicker to shape a few simple behaviours first so the horse gets the idea).

Then come to the trailer. Click for ANY interaction with the trailer, ie horse looks at it, horse takes a single step towards it (even if you’re still 50’ away from it) etc. Continue clicking and treating for any positive step at all from the horse, but here’s the deal: no luring him with the treats, and no dragging him up there by the lead rope. You take the time it takes for the HORSE to offer to go towards it.

Once you’re actually at the trailer, you’ll be clicking for things like sniffing the ramp, peeking inside, and (in the case of bolters) standing still at the mouth of the trailer without running backwards. You keep your rate of reinforcement very high so the horse has lots of feedback to know he’s doing the right things. If he offers to put a foot on, I would click and give a small jackpot (either a bunch of treats, or a few higher value treats) and toss them on the ground OUTSIDE of the trailer, so the horse has to step off to eat them. It seems counterintuitive, but what you’re doing is rewarding by simultaneously feeding -obviously- AND by backing off the pressure. That’s a huge reward for the horse, and gives him a LOT of feedback to tell him that he’s on the right track. He’ll be way more likely to offer putting that foot on again, and again you reward big and off the trailer. Soon it’s like the trailer becomes a magnet for that foot, he’ll be scarfing up the treats and scurrying over to put that foot back on. In the horse’s mind, he’s pressing the treat dispenser button

Once you’ve gotten that step solid, I would raise the bar a little. One foot on the trailer means a click and a normal treat. TWO feet on the trailer is now the standard for the big reward. Then 3, then all 4, etc… keeping in mind that this may take several sessions and you may need to go backwards and start from an easier place if the horse becomes too frightened or shut down.

Once fully ON the trailer, I would be doing a very large jackpot, like a pan of grain. He gets to eat it no strings attached- no tying by the halter, no doing up the ramp or butt bar, etc. You can build on those things later, right now we’re having a party because he put 4 feet on the trailer without being coerced.

I have used modified versions of this method on my string, and I have several horses who will happily hop on the trailer and wait to be tied, with not a drop of Morgan blood in any of them

[Bluey]

I have, but more by teaching a horse to go to a target in different places and one of those was the trailer, but the horse already loaded fine.

Clicker training works fine for any you want to teach.

[Posting_Trot]

Heronponie has given you a good primer.

It’s going to be harder (and take longer and take a lot more patience) to teach a horse to load if the horse is already wary or scared of the trailer.

That doesn’t mean you can’t do it, but it does mean that you might want to break up the training over several days. End each day’s training on a good note where everybody’s happy with what’s been achieved, and start the next day’s training by going back a few steps and rebuilding to the point that you reached the day before and then one or two steps beyond.

Good luck.

[asb_own_me]

[QUOTE=Desert Topaz;7956948]
I tried to clicker train my horse… she was scared of the clicker Seriously. It was almost comical.[/QUOTE]

I could see that happening with two of my geldings. Their eyeballs would probably pop out if I clicked a clicker at them. As it is, I put my phone on silent if I want to take a picture of one of the boys. Otherwise it’s Snorty City until the phone is out of sight.

But show him an actual camera that makes the clicking/snapping picture noise and he poses.

Duh.

To get back on topic, all mine load well. I’ve not used a clicker, but with my youngest we used what I think is being referred to as “shaping” on this thread. Movement toward/interest in the trailer - yay, reward. He caught on really quickly. He was always allowed to move at his own pace, one step at a time, to lower his head and sniff where he liked. I feel that was very important and built his trust - he didn’t have the feeling of us trying to trick him by rushing.

[eventerchick517]

[QUOTE=Hunterkid;7957127]
I prefer to send them in, not lead them…I would do a lot of sending practice on the lead rope before you even introduce the trailer…[/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on sending? How would you go about beginning to teach that? Mine both load quite well, but it would be nice to improve upon their manners.

[BEARCAT]

@S1969;7957100

Can you expand on this? Clicker training would be shaping the behavior too - so maybe you can explain how you shaped the behavior.

In simple terms:
Luring would be enticing the horse by shaking a bucket of oats in the trailer.
Shaping would be clicking and treating for every small movement the horse makes towards the trailer.
Targeting would be having the horse keep his nose on a target and follow it onto the trailer.
It takes good mechanics (food handling and delivery) and perfect timing.

I would start AWAY from the trailer and teach the horse to get on a platform, bridge, piece of plywood and also between the fence and some poles, raised poles, barrels or “load” them in a stall before moving on to the trailer.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=BEARCAT;7957521]
In simple terms:
Luring would be enticing the horse by shaking a bucket of oats in the trailer.
Shaping would be clicking and treating for every small movement the horse makes towards the trailer.
Targeting would be having the horse keep his nose on a target and follow it onto the trailer.
It takes good mechanics (food handling and delivery) and perfect timing.

I would start AWAY from the trailer and teach the horse to get on a platform, bridge, piece of plywood and also between the fence and some poles, raised poles, barrels or “load” them in a stall before moving on to the trailer.[/QUOTE]

Targeting you teach to a target you can move around and also stationary.

We used a plastic grocery bag, first on hand, then at the end of a stick.
We trained to touch the bag first, to move to the bag to touch it next, to follow the bag and touch it.
Then hung the bag in all kinds of places and taught to go to it and touch it.
Eventually we hung it on one corner of the front of the trailer and sent the horse in there.

[Wirt]

Shaping is a behaviorist term for “reward the smallest try”
The difficulty whether using a clicker or simply releasing from pressure, is in being able to recognize a move as an actual try.
Many horses have been taught how not to try. The have very cleverly learned to avoid anything temporarily uncomfortable, by being rewarded when actual evading, by well intentioned people, in the hopes of not upsetting the horse, calming him at the wrong time, through treats or pets or rest or other things.
While it is true that a horse can associate objects or events with fear, when having what some say is a traumatic experience, I have known several of horses involved in trailer accidents, even where the trailer was laying on its side, and the horse dragged out, that loaded right back in another trailer to get off the freeway.

Many people will tell me their horse won’t load because of a “traumatic” experience in a trailer. I never rule it out, but the trauma is usually worse for the person, and they can’t get it out of their minds. So the actions of the horse after that are misinterpreted every time he resist a try. So he gets more pets, and the unwanted behavior is rewarded. Until he really is refusing you.

[baytraks]

Fun thread; reading this I had a flashback to Dressage at Devon years ago. It was time to pack up and go, and our young filly was not sure she wanted to go into the trailer. Back at home, my partner had introduced her to clicker training with a tennis ball at the end of a stick as the target. With a clicker and a tennis ball, she had that filly follow her right in to the trailer at the show grounds without another thought. It was a super demonstration, and saved a lot of potential stress that day!

[beowulf]

I did it - it is no easy quick fix, as I am sure you know. My guy still has his days where he will stop and side-eye the trailer with look of contempt on his little mug.

He just doesn’t like the trailer - don’t think he had a bad experience but he seems to be of the opinion he is much too big to fit into that tiny box!! After a little discussion he will go in and he is rewarded with the click and an early dinner grain. I also second using a very ‘base’ type of treat - a big mistake I made early in my CT ‘career’ was to use gum-drops… those should be saved for really difficult days!

He is much better if he can load in a slant or a stock, than a straight load.

Mine was already familiarized with the CT concept, so I started rewarding him for stepping on a sheet of plywood right next to the trailer. Did that a few times and carried it over to rewarding him for stepping up onto the ramp. I would click and give him a treat with each step up - and I had my SO participate (reluctantly) by holding Horsey’s grain bucket up by the front - so Horsey could see there was a nice treat waiting for him up ahead. I kept the session short - and only asked him to get in the trailer once each session. I am sure you could ask for more, but I found that with CT, you cannot drill as the CT session loses its ‘game factor’ and gets boring.