Has Facebook made it harder to recognize bad trainers/breeders bc photos

[Limerick]

I have been thinking about this for a while. Does seeing a trainer/breeder’s photos and interactions convince us we know their character and horse care practices? If presented with opposite information, do we struggle because it all looks so good on social media?

I ask because I was reading a thread tonight about a breeder who would not send a shipment and made excuses and then threats. (There were many screenshots) So many people came on the thread to state their horses had not been treated right (weight loss and worms were main complaints) Looking at the breeder’s own public thread, she said how sad she was BUT look at all the pretty horses I have bred and thanks for y’all’s support.

Somewhere between the two individuals lies the truth BUT it made me wonder about facebook’s impact on our opinions of horse people. I know I got suckered a few years ago because “pretty horses and a young trainer seeming so enthusiastic!” It took me a while to realize she lacked the knowledge and had quite a strange relationship with the truth.

Thoughts?

[Texarkana]

I think Facebook and social media has made it a lot easier to spot the crazies and charlatans!

There have been soooooo many people who seemed quite capable and respectable until I witnessed their interactions online.

In the past, you’d only see glossy advertisements or published show results for a lot of these people. If the gossip never reached you, you had no idea who you were dealing with, meaning you often learned the hard way.

[Limerick]

I can definitely see that. Once you identify crazy,have you ever tried to warn someone about it? How did it go?

[Scribbler]

First I don’t believe any PR I see online, especially related to showing or training. If it matters I look up show results. If I want a trainer, I go interview them and watch them. I think I can evaluate pretty well these days. I also pay attention to gossip, but stay sceptical about gossip too. And I agree cray cray on social media is a huge red flag.

Do I warn people? Well, I chat to my real friends. I don’t bother warning acquaintances because very often they don’t have the same parameters as me and my observations hold no weight.

[Texarkana]

@Limerick

I can definitely see that. Once you identify crazy,have you ever tried to warn someone about it? How did it go?

Meh, it depends.

There are plenty of professionals on my personal blacklist for a myriad of reasons.

I generally don’t share those opinions unless the topic comes up among close friends.

But there have been some rare exceptions where I have privately messaged a stranger receiving bad recommendations.

[Curly_Feather]

Breeders that I would want to buy from are (for me) easier to recognise because of social media. I look for loads of posts with happy amateurs riding their horses in many different (low to medium -level) disciplines. Because I am the amateur that wants something with okay talent but maximum rideability, and that is happy to be out and about with very little drama. So if you consistently see their horses carting people around at dressage and small jumping shows, you get a really good idea of the kind of use they breed for.

[clanter]

unless I know the breeder I really do not rely upon a posted photo for anything, period.

Photoshop has made it way to easy to alter a digital photograph

[Zlotych]

Social media and the internet in general has made it easier for people to sell a smoke and mirror show. Get some pretty pictures, gush and brag about how amazing you/ your horses are, rely on long distance sales or people not actually coming to look in person.
Just look at how successful Jill Burnell of Grayfox Farm was, until her house of cards came crashing down.

[trubandloki]

I have always thought it was the opposite.
Social media makes it quite easy to look and see that some places are not all they are raved to be.

[Texarkana]

@Zlotych

Just look at how successful Jill Burnell of Grayfox Farm was, until her house of cards came crashing down.

She was someone who immediately came to mind as a breeder who was exposed because of social media, not the opposite.

If we didn’t have social media, people would have continued utilizing and defending a woman whose gorgeous stallions were producing winning offspring. Redwine was the stuff of dreams for magazine ads and promotional VHS tapes had he been born earlier! Without COTH, RMHP, and Facebook, the extent of her transgressions wouldn’t have spread.

If you recall, in the early 00s before FB, COTH was a hot bed for breeders and trainers. A lot of people showed their true colors here. That level of drama is non-existent on COTH anymore.

[dags]

@Texarkana

She was someone who immediately came to mind when as a breeder who was exposed because of social media, not the opposite.

If we didn’t have social media, people would have continued utilizing and defending a woman whose gorgeous stallions were producing winning offspring. Redwine was the stuff of dreams for magazine ads and promotional VHS tapes had he been born earlier! Without COTH, RMHP, and Facebook, the extent of her transgressions wouldn’t have spread.

If you recall, in the early 00s before FB, COTH was a hot bed for breeders and trainers. A lot of people showed their true colors here. That level of drama is non-existent on COTH anymore.

Excellent points. That would have all continued under the radar without social media as I’m sure it did for generations beforehand, thanks to beautiful vanity ads in glossy print mags that we would cut out and tape to our walls (Iron Springs Farm practically wall-papered my room and, of course, have survived social media just fine)

I am aware of the scenario in question and don’t know enough about either parties to weigh in, but the breeder is not without some notoriety and the things that came out of the woodwork were indeed eye-opening. If nothing else, the breeder lacked professionalism in her private conversations with the client (which were, of course!, screen-shot & shared), and withholding a container from a 3rd party vet clinic is just no. But the breeders that stepped up and called that out — without adding more fuel to the fire? They definitely gained (even more) respect from me that day.

[ridernc]

@Texarkana

There are plenty of professionals on my personal blacklist for a myriad of reasons.

I generally don’t share those opinions unless the topic comes up among close friends.

I am quoting you because this is also how I (and many close friends) feel. However, I often wonder: if someone is new to the area, but particularly if they are new to the sport, how do they know what to look for, what red flags to avoid, etc.? In the horse world, people tend to be relatively mum about negative experiences, even extreme ones, in my experience.

As someone who was sucked into a bad experience when returning to riding in a new area that took YEARS of outside educated horse people convincing me of, I am sympathetic to folks not knowing what they don’t know and struggling to leave challenging situations. (And then not sharing that experience outside a small circle of close friends.)

On topic, I would say that some of these places look amazing and engaged online and perhaps at first blush in real life. Show results from a program don’t often tell the full story for me unless you see the rounds/tests for yourself. Definitely not something a beginner or non-horsey parent would pick up on.

[Texarkana]

@ridernc

However, I often wonder: if someone is new to the area, but particularly if they are new to the sport, how do they know what to look for, what red flags to avoid, etc.? In the horse world, people tend to be relatively mum about negative experiences, even extreme ones, in my experience.

Totally agree. On the rare occasion where I speak up to a stranger privately, it’s usually been situations like you describe: someone new to horses or new to the area who is getting particularly bad recommendations.

I’m sorry you got sucked into a bad experience, it happens all too often.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

It’s not only locals sharing negative experiences on FB and on social media that’s helpful.

For example, in one thread on a FB group, I remember a mom casually remarking how her kid was falling off every lesson and the trainer would praise the kid for how brave and gritty she was getting back on. It was only when a number of horrified people were responding that it wasn’t “normal” for a kid to be falling off every friggin’ lesson and maybe the horse or the trainer (likely both) wasn’t suitable that the mom began to rethink.

Pre-Internet (at least, speaking personally), you found a barn locally, you subscribed to Practical Horseman, you read the horse books at the library. Some information was great, some was outdated, and sometimes people normalized behavior that was specific to the barn but not necessarily truly normal in the larger horse world.

[MorganMaresVT]

More broadly, this is becoming a “real,” researched psychological concept called “parasocial relationships,” in which people believe they really know, and are even friends with, online personalities/influencers/podcasters/etc. So I could see that trainers/breeders who are skilled at cultivating a desirable image would have more favorable perceptions from people who don’t know them in real life but follow the dreamy media persona.

Do You Feel You’re Friends With Celebrities or Influencers You Follow Online?...

[vxf111]

“Colors” or maybe (“colours”) being an apt word to use

[Jealoushe]

There is a great example of this close to me.

Someone who is a horse trader being charged with animal cruelty (6 counts). Horses without food and water, horses with gaping wounds left to die and rot in the field. Dead horses everywhere. Spreading strangles around the Province. Horses escaping all the time… list goes on and that doesn’t include the injuries of people who have purchased from them.

This person has a big following online. People will defend them to the bitter end because of who they display they are online. I have seen comments of people actually saying “well I’ve never been there in person but they seem great online!”

This person caters to new and ignorant horse owners so it’s an easy sell. Lots of posts of self praise and how they are saving horses from slaughter when really they are just taking a horse from one bad situation to another.

It’s pretty crazy how far from the truth the posts are and then how much the public just eats it up. Unfortunately it’s the horses who suffer the consequences.

Huge scammer catfish situation. Even with a he charges being public their internet minions are there to defend.

[vxf111]

If I see someone being given terrible recommendations that are just a poor idea for that PERSON but not someone recommending a true scammer/charlatan I will usually back channel the person asking for recommendations to give them a heads up. In the case of a scam artists, I will call that out publicly if I have firsthand knowledge:

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

True, it does go both ways. Like friends who are very militant about asking for donations to rescues, and when I say I won’t donate to a rescue I don’t personally know/have seen with my own eyes, they get salty.

There are some people who have massive platforms and use social media well but from the people I know who have met them in person, their training/people skills aren’t so great.

[Scribbler]

So I don’t usually give advice unless I’m asked or there’s clear and present physical emergency.

Because no one listens. The newbies have no context to evaluate advice, they ask 20 people and then go with what’s cheapest. Other ammies, well lots of them are a bit nuts themselves and go with the practitioner or trainer who bullshits or flatters or lies the most. And why would I have any credibility? I’m just another ammie, and since my horses are always healthy I obviously know nothing about vet care or horse care. It’s the people whose horses are constantly colicking and ripping suspensory ligaments that can tell you about health issues, right?