Hates or loves the myler tongue relief? I can't tell

[Alterration]

I’ve had a horse that strongly dislikes some bits and moderately tolerates others. Typically his response to any sort of “too much touchy in the mouthy with a bit I don’t like” is head flinging and sucking back. I’ve had a heck of a time getting him to accept any more than a super feather light touch to the mouth.

We’ve tried French link bits, Mullen mouth bits, happy mouth, rubber mouth, titanium bits, copper bits, bits with lozenges, bits with still cheeks, bits with hanging cheeks…everything except leather and this tongue relief bit, which I decided to try yesterday.

With the tongue relief he had the exact OPPOSITE response. He dove onto the bit like an olympic high diver. He pulled and was more forward than he ever has been. It was a shocking change to the point that I felt a few times like he was going to charge right through the bit (yes, half halts, bending etc…it was just such a surprise because normally I’m urging this horse forward). I was definitely not riding any better than I normally am, actually probably a tad worse but typically that makes him suck back more.

So…does he like the myler and should we stick with it? Or does he hate this especially and I need to switch back to the last bit he only sort of tolerated? Thoughts?

[exvet]

I’m having challenges with one of mine in terms of accepting the contact and bit; but, mine has a response almost the opposite of yours - less sucking back and more barreling through BUT I know when he’s more tolerant of a bit by less tongue out the mouth and longer periods of quiet mouth. If it were me, I would give the Myler a little more time. It may not be the final solution but one thing I have found going through this particular journey with this horse (usually it’s the saddle quest when it’s been all my others) is that balance, confidence and sorting things out for the horse takes time and that too can feel like bit issues. As long as you feel safe, I would ride a few more times in the bit and see if there is gradual improvement. Again I find that if I ride in a manner that focuses completely on keeping my guy perfectly straight and balanced (a challenge on a 4 year old less than a year under saddle) the bit issue is often lessened. Right now my guy is sort of accepting the rubber mouth mullen (I know not a solution for yours) at least to a point that I feel I can get some real training done in terms of helping him use himself properly. I know this is not the bit we’ll land on for good; but, I needed at least some weight and contact in the bit so that we can properly cycle the energy over his back in order to help him develop properly. I have a friend/colleague coming over to float his teeth today as well…keeping fingers crossed for both you and I that we’ll find a solution sooner rather than later

[Alterration]

@exvet

As long as you feel safe, I would ride a few more times in the bit and see if there is gradual improvement. Again I find that if I ride in a manner that focuses completely on keeping my guy perfectly straight and balanced (a challenge on a 4 year old less than a year under saddle) the bit issue is often lessened. Right now my guy is sort of accepting the rubber mouth mullen (I know not a solution for yours) at least to a point that I feel I can get some real training done in terms of helping him use himself properly. I know this is not the bit we’ll land on for good; but, I needed at least some weight and contact in the bit so that we can properly cycle the energy over his back in order to help him develop properly.

I do feel safe - he’s not the type typically (at least…he wasn’t ever the type in the past) to actually bolt or be super bad, I just felt like I was close to water-skiing when normally we have to have the “go means go” conversation at least once in the training session. And that’s exactly why we tried the myler - I have to have the energy in my hand before I can do anything with it…I just wasn’t expecting 1100 lbs of it at once. Now it could be that the myler is coincidental and that the go means go lessons finally stuck and we’ve discovered this new fun evasion of hanging on me, but he was SO sensitive that I’d be surprised that it would go from 0-100 like that.

He was a bit quieter in the mouth, but he’s an anxious and mouthy sort of guy by nature, so I don’t anticipate that going away any time soon.

[theresak]

@exvet

I’m having challenges with one of mine in terms of accepting the contact and bit; but, mine has a response almost the opposite of yours - less sucking back and more barreling through BUT I know when he’s more tolerant of a bit by less tongue out the mouth and longer periods of quiet mouth.

@exvet, what are you tactics, bit, bridle, etc. for the tongue out? My 4 year old gelding started doing it a few weeks ago. None of the bits or noseband set ups I’ve tried have really made a difference, and lifting the bit will get him to put it back in but it’s a repetitive cycle a few times throughout a ride. He’s exceptionally mouthy in general, will stick his tongue out on a loose rein on the trail when he’s heading home/bored. He was also doesn’t push much into the hand.

@Alterration, I’ve got a second hand Myler I’m going to try tonight. Fingers crossed he pushes into it like your horse and maybe his tongue stays in his mouth. My trainer would say that first you need the horse to give you something in your hand, then you can work on changing the balance to lighten the contact.

[exvet]

theresak - I’ve gone to changing the saddle (has helped), making sure the bridle fits well and isn’t bothering him anywhere (ears, noseband etc), riding him with as much support from me as possible to maintain and show him his balance - helps a ton, changing bits (still haven’t found the one I think we’ll end up with but he does ‘take’ the rubber mullen the best). We had everyone’s teeth floated yesterday. While this guy needed it there wasn’t anything horrendous nor does he have a low palate or fleshy tongue. He does have a narrow face. I’m going to see if I can borrow a baucher bit because as you’ve discovered and also with mine, lifting the bit seems to help. I’ve come to two conclusion, (1) My guy likes a ‘thicker’ mouth piece with some give, and (2) I’m not backing off on training in so far as long as I’m able to ride him with a dominant seat that can help him find his balance there seems to at least be small improvements with each ride. So I’m on the hunt for a bit that meets all of his ‘needs’ - in case anyone knows of one I’m all ears

[theresak]

@exvet when you say softer mouthpiece with some give, do you mean like a Nathe or Duo? Depending on size, you can usually find some of those used on FB. There are also a few newer brands that are doing different materials in a mullen type - Winderen, Bombers flexible, and Beris. Prices are often better if you order from the UK.

I had to move away from the synthetic bits as he was chewing through them in 2 rides. Wrapping in sealtex helped but that’s not legal for showing.

Interesting about the baucher - maybe I’ll try that. I’m also struggling with bridle fit - his size, shape, and ear placement is weird and I might try a Micklem.

[CobJockey]

@exvet I think you’re a fellow Welsh Cob rider. I’ve had a bunch of tongue challenges with my showing 2nd/almost 3rd Sec D, some of them created by me and some from him. The bit we keep coming back to is the Bombers Happy Tongue Straight (sweet iron) and the similarly shaped Bombers Loose Ring Bomber Blue (nylon composite - this is what he goes best in), both of which are unjointed. I was kind of surprised how much finesse I have with an unjointed bit, but he goes so well in it, I’m not arguing! We’ve also tried a Myler comfort snaffle, Herm Sprenger single jointed nathe, NS Baucher, NS Turtle Top Baucher, but we keep coming back to the Bombers bits, especially the synthetic one.

FWIW we also struggled with bridle fit - everything was too tight behind his ears - and ended up in a custom fitted Fairfax drop which he positively loves.

[exvet]

Yes I do mean like the Nathe or Duo so thank you for the tip and will keep an eye out for a reasonably priced used option to try. I’ll also continue to look for different materials that I hope will be legal. I get the challenge on the synthetic bits and think I will be seeing the same issue; which is why I’m going to try the baucher. My daughter has one she uses on our stallion so I just need to get that from her. Fortunately bridle fit is not the issue anymore. The one I have isn’t a Micklem but does have some similar features (can’t remember the brand). I’d certainly be interested to hear what solution you find when you do.

[exvet]

Yes I have welsh cobs. I’m down to two since I sold my stallion to my daughter and sold off all the mares. One of my Welsh cobs (section C) is now retired at 19 after successfully competing through prix st george but the other is 7 (a homebred, section D) and competing at third level.

This guy that I’ve been referring to, though, is a Morgan and is easier to fit than the welsh cobs - both bridle and bit. I guess you could say I’m revisiting my ‘roots’ coming from a family with decades (actually centuries) of Morgan tradition. This guy is more working western lines so not as much like the welsh cobs though all the heavily lippitt bred ones I’ve had were welsh cob knock offs in build and character.

Currently the two bits that seem to do best with my Morgan, at least he doesn’t stick his tongue out, are the Bombers Happy Tongue Sweet Iron with tongue relief (so it’s ported) and the rubber mullen loose ring snaffle. Though we have the ‘tongue out’ issue resolved he’s still chomping and fighting the bit as opposed to chewing and swallowing. His teeth were just done and evidently were not the cause. Riding him up and open focusing on balance and keeping him straight and true in frame creates a very pretty picture and more productive ride since he’ll now meet the bit but hasn’t resolved/escaped the constant chomping on the bit so the hunt for a resolution continues.

[PaddockWood]

Thanks for this thread. My mare is going much better in the Myler Tongue Relief - seeking the bit for the first time versus hiding behind it. But appreciate these other ideas to try to see if she would feel even better. Just heard Dr. Clayton remark how much she likes the Micklem. Planning to get one and see for us.

Didn’t know if you’d all caught a couple of Dr. Clayton discussions? I listened the The Horse Podcast yesterday and it was very good.

‎Ask The Horse on Apple Podcasts

And of course THANK YOU Wendy Murdoch. She spent the past year and a half conducting incredible interviews. Here’s one w Dr. C too:

No. 93. Hilary Clayton DVM: A Bit about Bits and Bridles