I was an eventer turned dressage, and now I’m in the hunter world, but dressage has not really left. My new guy has a pretty decent shoulder-in and a not bad leg yield however the haunches in, yeah, it’s not great. And he keep offering up a half pass instead of the haunches in and I cannot for the life of me think of what I’m doing wrong with my seat to make this happen. tried to ask off a circle, off a corner so many things and I’m just dropping the ball somewhere. Can someone walk me through my mechanics please?
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Can you go get a dressage lesson? A great deal depends on what cues he already knows. I would just go get a couple dressage lessons, have coach ride him and tell you what he knows.
As I’m sure you know, the lateral work where the horse is bent away from the direction of travel, like shoulder in and to some extent leg yield, are much easier than the moves bent in the direction of travel, which includes haunches in, half pass and pirouette. My guess is that as a hunter he was not taught these and he’s just guessing what you want.
I like to teach all lateral work on the ground first, so my response would be to check out all his moves and bends in hand, and see where the holes are.
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Can you do a head to the wall leg yield so that you get the concept of the angle? Start in the walk. Or even shoulder out (bent to the outside)? From there, you work on adding inside bend while maintaining the haunches on the inside track. My guess is that he thinks he has to move the whole body sideways off your outside leg and not just the haunches. I think it can be easier to teach coming out of a volte somewhere towards the middle of the long side, maybe following shoulder in (shoulder in, volte, haunches in). But some horses understand the swing back and forth between shoulder in and haunches in done in succession without a circle in between. Start with schooling more angle, less bend, then try to add more correct bend.
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To me it sounds like he’s confusing your aids.
Many horse confuse the half-pass with the aid to canter- it’s about timing for them. Without knowing your situation, I’d suggest clarifying the aids between the half-pass and haunches is.with your horse. This is hard to do, especially with some horses, Shoulder in is always your friend and a solid foundation in how your horse goes. Consider half-pass as a shoulder-in on the diagonal. That should help you as you develop half-pass in H/J land. It sounds to me that you and your horse are rather in tune with each other. As a dressage rider I say GO FOR IT!!!
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You apparently don’t have control of his shoulders so I wonder what your inside leg and shoulder are doing. For teaching purposes, your inside leg may need to be a little forward to support the shoulder and at the same time, your shoulders stay aligned on the track down the fence. That is what you need your horse’s shoulders to do.
Assuming you can visualize this, that puts your seat slightly rotated to the outside relative to your shoulders, putting one hip just ahead of the other. That is what you need your horse to do with his hips too.
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I honestly didn’t think this was an option at my barn but it is! So next time trainer is away at a show we’ll have a couple dressage lessons. It’ll make me happy to be back to it again, and I’m sure annoy the heck out of the horse. Thanks I honestly wouldn’t have thought to ask.
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I think you’ve hit the problem exactly he thinks that leg means move diagonally. And I’m not helping though can’t figure out quite where I’m wrong. The volte between sound great, and I’ll also stop asking for so much correct bend till his gets what is being asked. Thank you!
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In your effort to have him bend his hips in, you may be moving your hips in the direction of bend, instead of keeping them steady. While you hips should follow his hips, simply bending your outside leg at the,knee and bringing it back will accomplish this, while putting weight on your inside seat bone. This is where your hips continue forward, while your inside leg blocks any tendency to move sideway.
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I’m surprised that no one has mentioned the importance of keeping his neck straight and his (and your) shoulders and eyes pointed to where you want to go. This applies to both haunches in and half pass.
But the neck is NOT straight in travers or half pass - the bend goes through the entire horse. Even in leg yielding there is slight flexion (in the opposite direction to travers or half pass) in the neck even though the body is kept straight.
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Flexion comes at the poll, not the neck. But ok, let’s just keep it at everyone’s shoulders and eyes need to be straight in the line of travel.
Which is not the same as the neck is straight. The neck is most definitely NOT straight in half pass or travers.
As for flexion being at the poll - yes - most of the neck is straight but for that last bit where the head attaches.
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Jesus, take it easy. I’m not here to argue with you. Find someone else to harangue.
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I think what I would try is riding renvers so the wall helps as you both figure it out. Then you can move to the inside track to reduce the support from the wall. Once you go back to riding travers, if it starts to drift off the wall, just correct with a LY to the wall and repeat. Sometimes riding the lateral movement in walk and trot, staying in the movement through the transition, can also be helpful if you can execute it in walk, but can’t develop it within the trot.
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If you don’t want to be corrected (for the sake of people who may soak up your information and run with it), don’t post blatantly incorrect things.
And PSA, don’t make yourself look even sillier by claiming to be harangued when corrected.
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Honestly, can you not let this go? I believe most people know what I meant by keeping the neck straight. But if you enjoy haranguing me, by all means, have at it. I hate to spoil anyone’s fun. 
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@SillyHorse Don’t take it personally. I got the same treatment on another thread. Sascha is on a mission to save the internet from straight-necked haunches in.
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This is why they make soft plastic baseball bats. They do less damage when bludgeoning. 
FYI-Rider’s shoulders follow horse’s shoulder, rider’s hips follow horse’s hips, but there is always a varying degree of flexion in the direction of movement, except in LY, where the degree is very slight.
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@phoenixrises - If your horse is offering half pass when you ask for HI on the rail, it tells you two things: 1. your inside leg is insufficient to keep him on the rail, and 2. your outside rein is insufficient to keep him on the rail. Inside leg to outside rein. Who knew?
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