hello! This is my first post on here but I’ve been a long time reader of these forums thanks to google. Hopefully, someone out there can help.
I got my rescue appy and started him about a year ago. He’s been really fun to ride. We are almost ready for our first rated dressage show riding training level test 1, but there is one part we haven’t perfected.
The test calls for 20 meter canter circle at C, right lead, then canter right lead down the long side and trot between B and F. The first half of our circle is beautiful but when we come back to the short side at C and are approaching long side, he sort blows off the corner and brings his hind end in and does haunches in until we trot.
I don’t think it’s lameness because when we do this move in the other side (by E) still in the right lead, he stays straight for the whole long side. I have tried shoulder fore and shoulder in but he is really resistant and will swing his butt back to the inside despite my efforts to put him in shoulder fore in the canter. He really tries to blow through me in the corner coming out of the circle.
He’s very obedient other wise and correct in his gaits and frame but for some reason this is really sticky for him (us.)
again im hesitant to think it’s lameness because he will happily canter the other longside and stay straight.
can anyone give us some pointers? It’s the only thing keeping us out of the show ring and I’d really like to give both of us that aha moment where it’s no longer an issue.
Thanks!
Probably not lameness, but weakness and crookedness. Most horses are weak and crooked to one side or the other. Help strengthen that leg and straighten him by riding a little shoulder-fore to the right. Practice this in walk and trot first. Remember you are building strength to get the straightness you want. Don’t overthink it – you’re in Training Level after all. Over time he will strengthen and straighten but it’s something you’ll always have to be mindful of.
Are you sure YOU are sitting straight and balanced?
Are you working with a trainer? Eyes on the ground are so helpful!
Let me see if I have this right: He only swings his hunches in as you are approaching the long side where he knows the trot is coming? And he does’t do this to the left in the same figure?
I’ll bet you are twisting in the saddle a bit and stiffening your outside hip as you come around that corner and think about slowing or organizing the canter for the transition. If you are, in fact, scissoring your legs from hips across his back, he’s doing what he thinks you told him to with his hind end.
Rather than trying to fix the hind end by moving his shoulder to a track to the inside of the hind legs, why not see if you can fix your seat? To me, this means “leaving your inside sitting bone” on his back and following in the canter as you come around that corner where he wants to swing in. That helps hold him out and it also means that you’ll have a harder time stiffening that outside hip. It might take you a few tries to figure it out. In any case, keep cantering down the long side (and turn the corner or whatever) until he “hears” that inside sitting bone and straightens his hind end back out. Only do the trot transition when he is straight and then praise him afterwards.
There are a couple of abstract points that I have learned and which have helped me with a wiggly mare I own. We are both green at this dressage stuff, but I think it will stand us in good stead as we move up the levels.
- “The set-up for a movement is not the movement.” This is especially true with things like flying changes and half-passes. So from the beginning, the horse needs to learn that you are allowed to control the bend, and the alignment of his shoulders and haunches. Just because you do something like change the bend does not mean that he gets to leap to whatever usually follows. Rather, he’s got to wait for the aid for that movement.
All this is to say that it’s worth teaching a horse to allow you to position him where you want him and to wait there.
- That said, if I have a problem with moving something laterally, shoulders, haunches or ribcage, I try my best to use the aid that I ultimately want to use (and for me, this will be mainly my seat and maybe some thigh) and reinforce that if the horse didn’t “hear me” the first time. If, instead, I move the front end around a lot in order to fix something in the hind end, I can make a busy-minded horse or a worrier into a reactive ride where he’s flinging himself from one extreme to the other. This isn’t all horses, but it can be hard for a horse-and-rider team to fix without outside help. Again, so long as you ask for what you want in terms of bend and the position of the shoulders and haunches… and you hold out until you get that, you aren’t going “too fast” for your horse’s mind.
I hope this helps.
In addition to the above, sometimes going more simple is good. What happens if you do a transition to trot before the corner and then trot the long side? Does he still swing haunches through the turn? Slowing it down might help you wotk through this.
Have you tried mixing it up, e.g. instead of going large, do a 3 loop serpentine, which makes you finish that turn?
Sometimes weakness needs to be addresed in even smaller steps. For example if the inside hind is weak, shoulder fore is the right exercise; but the weakness may prevent doing this properly so do shoulder in on the other rein and start strengthening in an easier way.
Also you may try a change in tactic to shoulder fore on that long wall by instead doing a series of counter bends and true bends, which helps unlock the canter. Keep doing this through the short side. You may find once you’ve mastered this that you have much greater control over both front and hind ends. And by not doing the transition down to trot you keep him guessing and waiting for your aid rather than antcipating it.
Since the horse is ok in the right lead canter at another location in the arena, I vote for rider tension or crookedness.
I am all too aware of one-sidedness in horses. And, in myself, which I discovered in Yoga. Amazing what yoga can show you about your body.
Having retrained ex-racehorses, who are notoriously one-leaded and one sided from building up muscle going to one direction, mainly, the weak side of a horse is a real thing. I also believe that horses can be right or left handed just as we are. Asking them to build strength equilaterally would be as focsed for them as for us. Play soccor with your left foot, my right-footed friends. I did one fine spring day, and overused my hip which brought me torn ligaments which took a very long time to heal.
I would become mindful of my own crookedness on the horse, in case there is any; I would use my inside leg to ‘hold’ him as straight as I could; I would pay attention to his shoulder, which may “pop” out to the right, if he is going left, another form of non-straightness; and I would use shoulder-ins and transitions to build up strength and straightness.
Serpentines, as described above, would be very useful, and I wonder if a circle just before the moment he swung those haunches in would put a new twist on the conumdrum. A large circle. Being round on a circle is part of learning the correct bend, the correct straightness, and you may not even be able to complete an entire circle correctly at the canter. Remember, too, straightness is also straight up and down, not just nose to tail. Tilt-a-whirl leaning through a corner or circle. is not straight, either, and strenth to stand upright.
A correct circle is almost impossible to swing his haunches into. At training, I did not ride the long side much at all. Everything begain on the 20 meter circle, to teach the transition to canter on the proper bend, and “straight”, to maintain the shoulder. I find it hard to picture a horse swinging his haunches in on a correctly bent 20 meter circle from trot to canter without losing the circle and the bend.
Lastly make sure your outside leg is not too far back and too strong. I would susupect that your hips may well be twisted with the inside hip more forward than the outside. If you were on the circle, you would be able to perceive this very well.
This is a very common but usually not just located at one point. Are you sure that he is indeed moving straight when there is no circle preceding the corner?.
Suggestions! When you come to the second part of that circle, do not look ahead, continue to look through the circle., the just 1-2 strides before C focus on C, immediately look into the corner. Keep looking into the corner. You will go where your eyes go. As soon as you get through the corner, be sure your outside leg is no longer back. It should have been your inside leg guiding you through it. Then ride him in shoulder fore, which will correctly take his shoulder off the wall, and if need be carry your inside leg slightly back.
Sometimes, it’s a case of riding the horse you have, until the horse you want to ride gets strong enough to be ridden correctly.
Hard to tell without seeing it, here are several things that have worked for me in the past.
Instead of doing a full circle do an oval - half a circle, then a couple of strides straight.
Canter on a square- a couple of strides making a turn, then several strides straight, until you make another turn. You can then progress to a hexagon or octagon, and then a circle.
Figure 8s or serpentine. As you approach the halfway point on the circle, come back to the trot, pick up the other lead, and canter a circle in the other direction. Keep the horse guessing which way he is going THIS time.
Counterbend - each time he throws his haunches in, change the bend to the outside for a few strides.
Introducing counter canter will also help develop strength and straightness.
Finally (or really, FIRST), since it happens in a particular movement, check to see if YOU are doing anything different in anticipation.
Balance (left-right and front back)
Legs in the right position and giving the right aids
Shoulders even (that is often the culprit in my case, I drop one shoulder which makes the horse crooked)
Hands in the right position with right contact, giving the right aids
Also (and you already indicated this, I think) remember that you want to put the shoulders in front of the hips. You do NOT want to put the hips behind the shoulders.
ThreeFigs and others who said ride thinking shoulder fore in ANY gait when tracking right. Your horse is hollow to the right and that’s why he likes to carry his haunches in. I have a student who’s horse did the same. After several months of consistent shoulder-fore when tracking right, his R hind could carry better and he became straighter. It takes time and consistency. Not saying the OP may not be inducing some of this behavior if she is crooked, hangs on the inside rein, etc, but most horses have a tendency (some more than others) to carry hips-in on their hollow side. That’s why lateral work and bending is so good for balancing and straightening the horse!
