Probably the best advice yet: Mind your manners. One can tell somebody that there is no way in youknowwhere that they will ride with you, but you can still package it in a polite form and leave goodwill.
[QUOTE=JSwan;4504428]
I’m offended by the sense of “entitlement” some of you have.
You don’t have the right to use other people’s land. It’s not yours. You don’t pay the taxes, you don’t pay the mortgage.
If you would like to recreate on someone else’s land, you ask permission, you mind your manners, and you make sure your guests do too. I don’t knock on your door and demand admittance, do I? And also bring “friends” and demand you make them a sammich? I open my land to sportsmen who carry loaded weapons - yes - I’m going to do my best to make sure they’re safe and responsible.[/QUOTE]
I don’t currently hunt, but own land, and I agree on the above points. In such a litigious society, as a land owner you need to be vigilant about who is on your land doing what. An accident or injury can easily end up with a lawsuit regardless if people have permission to be on your land or not.
If you don’t own the land you hunt on, regardless of species and with/without horse and hound, there are going to be rules that must be obeyed. Restricted hunt membership to those who operate in a safe and respectful manner on others’ property, achieved through vetting potential members, is not rudeness or snobbery, it’s a legal necessity.
Hunters who are not also land owners should be more aware of this and not take offence.
[QUOTE=JSwan;4497640]
It’s not about having a fancy horse, or a fancy jacket - that’s all BS and we all know it. First and foremost - it’s about SAFETY.
It’s a terribly dangerous sport and there is nothing wrong with the club trying to ascertain the competence of the rider - or declining a person who may not have the ability to keep up with that particular hunt.
;)[/QUOTE]
I haven’t read the entire thread, but holy cow, this opened a can of worms.
Let me tell you about “safety” with a hunt I capped with 20 years ago. I capped with them maybe once or twice before. I was a good girl and stayed at the back of the hilltoppers and kept my mouth shut. I barely knew the lay of the land.
One Saturday, there was an accident in the field, an injured horse and rider. Someone left to get a truck and trailer. Then, during the crisis, another person fell off and got hurt. The hounds and the field were long gone. The person hurt insisted on getting back on their horse and riding back to the trailers.(Stupid, but hurt people do stupid things.) Everyone, but me, had left. I had to lead the person back to safety, and I barely knew the hunt country.
We made it back safely. You know what pissed me off the most - NO ONE came looking for us. The hunt breakfast was going strong and NO ONE wondered where I was or where the other member of the hunt was. OMG!!! No one cared. Not the Master, Field Master, the Secretary, Whips or other members of the hunt. Not even a thank you. They were only worried about how much booze they could drink.
I was a GUEST and I had to help a MEMBER of the hunt get to safety. No one even wondered where we were. When the Master of the hunt doesn’t care about it’s members and their well-being, that is a huge red flag to me.
That turned me off hunting.
mbarrett - I’m sorry your incident with the fallen rider 20 years ago had turned you off hunting.
Every hunt I’ve ever been to takes great care to insure injured riders are seen to safety. When one’s sport takes place on the ungroomed terrain outside the ring, far from trailers or camp or the medical tent, safety always carries a risk. Today we are better off for the technology to “keep in touch”. We have cell phones for instant communication and the staff usually carries walkie-talkies, or other instant communication. Many hunts have the hound truck within hailing distance to collect injured hounds, or riders.
I’m also sorry that you felt the hunt neglected to thank you for your help, or didn’t care where you were or what happened to you. It is not the norm.
Lordy, this thread got ugly while I was gone! Frankly, if I read it as a newbie I’d be turned off too.
Tantivy, I fear you have an overactive imagination on this one (this may be the product of circulating in the Virginia hunt/gossip circle for too long…:))
Ain’t nothin’ between the lines.
I’m not too far from being a newbie but this thread was a real eye opener for me, too. I’d always thought horse people appreciated, on some level, the amount of effort that went into putting an activity together. And the issues and challenges we face these days.
I wish y’all the best of luck finding willing landowners and volunteers to do the labor, fundraising, and the scut work for you so you can ride and show and hunt.
After reading what some of y’all really think of volunteers and landowners I’m not inclined to help out anymore. Not for horse people/activities anyway.
I believe there are several on this chat that have been in direct contact with one side or the other of this dispute – or both. There is indeed more to it than is being openly discussed. The OP was a well known wild card in his circles. The contacted master fumbled a chance to take the high road, but I believe was merely dissuading a guest they did not wish to receive.
Simple. Awkwardly handled, but understandable.
‘Reading between the lines’, remember, may include having ‘other’ information (from direct contact with the party/s) - and not just ‘guessing’ about who’s doing what to who.
But none of that should remove attention from the importance of airing this subject matter - what responsibilities we have as hunting ambassadors, what responsibility a guest has, what respect a landowner deserves, etc. Finding out that a hunt, 20 years ago, did not treat a guest correctly burns me up - knowing it helps me/us improve, making DAMN sure to look around next time and make SURE no guest/visitor is left dangling, etc.
Far from being a negative hissy fest, this has turned into a heated but terribly important and constructive discussion.
Horse people are just people. They are no different than others, it’s hard to find folks who actually do the work and not just consume. But that is a global problem of our times.
Personally, it makes me want to do more but I don’t have the time to commit to anything serious these days.
(that’s why I make it a point to thank the Lady who is spear heading all PTO activities at my Son’s school for 3 years now. She is amazing!)
HR - Well stated.
Common courtesy is always expected, even in turning away potential guests. If one doesn’t get an invite, one should take it graciously.
Hunting is a serious sport with serious protocol ALL of which is designed with safety FIRST in mind. Even down to the colors of the coat and the colors on the collar, and the strict rule to tell/inform/ask/receive permission from the Master when you need to do ANYTHING different from what is done by the Field.
Just like many other horse sports out there, it is not for everyone. It is not for every horse. But what sets it apart is it is a PRIVATELY HELD black-tie event on private lands by a private individual. It is, and always has been, admittedly high risk, and thus those that organize these private events must be given the consideration due to that responsibility to keep the invited guests as safe as possible.
If one doesn’t get a thank you for helping another rider, and that accolade means a lot of you, then speak up. Tell the Master what you did. Tell the Honorary Secretary. Speak up to the proper ear when you see something that can be changed for the better, and be polite about it. They will want to know if there is a hole in their “safety net” in regards to the Field so that they can take steps to fix it. That is the rider’s common courtesy to the hunt to provide them the knowledge they need to ensure the people who hunt with them are given the best measure of safety the hunt can provide. I have also been on the “giving end” of those safety measures (never yet on the receiving end, thankfully), and I know how important it is for communication on all fronts.
20 years was a long long long time ago. I personally don’t ever judge a sport by an incident that happened in what is admittedly a far different world than the one in which we are currently engaged. I could make the same claims for crappy stuff that happened to me in dressage and eventing and distance riding and western riding and carriage driving, and yes, even hunting! (by a certain hateful individual)… but…if I took it all to the point of feeling emotionally injured and saying “forget it”, I’d have been long reduced to sitting in a rocking chair, knitting, rather than still being out on my horse, still riding in the various equestrian sports, and still helping to make a difference. JMHO.
Again, this is a very different world. While common courtesy always rules, today’s technology exists to make our collective lives …and sports… safer and (hopefully) more enjoyable.
I once had a similar experience to mbarrett at a rather large hunt week type of activity. I have to say that the people they had appointed as field masters (at least the ones I had contact with) seemed to be appointed on the basis of politics and not actual ability, which I believe contributed to this incident.
early off into the first run, two other guests from a hunt far away fell off. Well, the entire field, including several members with colors of the host hunt, galloped right on past these people. No one shouted “Rider down” or any of the other things that are done to alert those ahead that there is a problem.
My friend and I, who have colors with our home hunt and had them at that time, stayed with the fallen riders and another member of our hunt went to find their horses.
The two fallen riders ended up being lifeflighted out, and not one person from the host hunt ever showed up until the helicopter had left. Now, in all fairness I don’t know if anyone ever went to the hospital and i never heard any more about the riders condition etc and other people from their hunt driove their rig and took their horses.
I have not attended a joint hunt or any other activity with that hunt since. Obviously the incident did not stop me or discourage me from hunting, I just prefer to do it with groups that are a little more safety conscious.
I believe that safety is paramount in our sport due to it’s inherent nature. And i also I believe that good manners and being polite, even to those you do not care for, are a part of being a good representative of our sport.
Wow…the OP asked a simple question and got a really rude answer…then everyone decides to debate the validity of the question…and someone actually says they’d ban her from their land…really??? All that from a simple question…
And the creation of threads like this by the OP is why no hunt (or any other group that has any reason to be concerned about PR) should EVER respond the way the Master did. NO MATTER WHAT. Again, there were people that I would LOVE to have been able to tell to jump off a cliff when I worked for my studio. My manager would love to have been able to tell them to jump off a cliff. (Our owner probably WOULD have, and knowing this is a bad thing is why he had a professional manager and admin assistant who handled these things for him.) We didn’t. Because IF we did, that would be someone who could go out and tell other people and there goes our reputation, fairly or unfairly.
Again, NO ONE is saying that hunts should just allow anyone to tag along any time. Even hunts who use public land (and those do exist) aren’t going to do that. The point is never take the low road, becuase it WILL come back to haunt you. Say no, but do it nicely. There are options besides “Hey, everyone come on over!” and “You aren’t good enough to clean up after our horses, let alone ride with us, pleb.”
There are two issues that are important to all equestrian activities.
-
Loss of open space
-
Liability
These issues drive almost every decision an org, club, or individual makes. Where to hold an event. How to encourage people to donate their time, money, or land. How to protect those people from being punished for their generosity (lawsuits) How to ensure everyone is safe, responsible, and has a good time. How to feed everyone, entertain everyone, and make sure everything is perfect.
All that costs a tremendous amount of money - as anyone who has priced event coverage can tell you. An army of volunteers is needed - year 'round. The volunteers take no pay, ask for nothing, and usually dig deep into their pockets and donate to help make an event enjoyable for everyone.
The only protection offered an organizer/club/org and the landowner is in the form of the measly Recreational Use and Equine Activity Liability Statutes. Neither of which offer that much protection, to be quite honest.
All over the US, people are closing their land to hunting, trail riding, and showing and it’s for two reasons.
-
Fear of a lawsuit.
-
Hostility to equestrians (foxhunters or not)
Public land is in danger too - as equestrians are often excluded from trails and facilities.
There is no way to get that land back. There is no way to regain goodwill once it’s been lost.
Far from “talking out of my ass”, I’m being frank and direct. Hunt clubs - ALL hunt clubs - not just mounted foxhunters - MUST screen guests and members a little. And we MUST all focus on safety - which may include excusing people who are dangerous, disrespectful or irresponsible.
You can’t treat volunteers, landowners and donors like crap and then expect them to lay out the red carpet for you.
That goes for horse trials, dressage shows, endurance - all horse sports. I’ve seen volunteers and show organizers treated like sh** by competitors.
And frankly - there are always those who are determined to take offense no matter how well worded a response is. Please remember that the OP did go on later to state that the Master HAD been polite. Basically - he didn’t like the answer. Well… not sure what anyone is supposed to do about that.
Note that there is an article on COTH about the Equine Activity Liability Statutes - and that statutes limitations.
Another threat to hunting is something most of you may not be aware of. It is the increasing popularity of leasing hunting rights.
More and more, landowners are being encouraged to sell or lease the hunting rights on their land.
Foxhunting requires enormous tracts of land. If landowners start charging a lease none of you will be hunting much longer. Unless you are truly very wealthy.
One hunting lease could keep a dairy from going under, or a farmer from bankruptcy after losing his crop. So why shouldn’t he charge a fee to hunt his land? Or sell his rights?
Any hunt club has a heck of a lot of things going on behind the scenes - and honestly the OP should have known that - he’s not that new to hunting. A real newbie is easily forgiven - it’s a big learning curve and it helps if you have a hunting buddy or mentor. (which is what I’ve tried to be as have countless others).
I’m mystified. The thread starter was an inquiry to cap and response from the Master. I have completely missed the basis for your conclusion as to opinions regarding landowners and volunteers.
I haven’t seen anyone disagree with the fact that landowners are the most important part of hunting- without them, there would be no sport. It is true that a Master has to put landowner relations as job #1 and that that is a valid reason for ‘screening’ guests (or more often limiting field size). But I have to say- I have seen WORSE faux pas towards landowners by Masters than by newbies. As in- cutting a fence and leaving it down because MFH can’t get horse over coop (and is too stupid to notice a perfectly functional gate just down the fence line). Just one example of many that come to mind.
HR- the OP is a newbie to foxhunting- I’m surely not aware that he is a ‘well known wild card’ but then I’m not privy to Texas hunting gossip (actually in Utah I am not privy to ANY hunting gossip, but that’s not altogether a bad thing). I asked for info from the OP and checked that out to some extent (enough to ascertain that in making his poorly worded inquiry he was guilty of FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS ON THE HUNT’S WEB SITE). But, not bein’ in with the in crowd, I never pursued or got any details from ‘the other side’- because it was rather beside the point. Whether in hunting circles or not, one doesn’t respond to an ill-mannered inquiry with rudeness. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I believe everyone is well aware that there are ALWAYS two sides to a story- I just don’t see how one gets from there to bashing a poster who comes with a question, however awkwardly presented.
Then you didn’t read far enough. Maybe it’s been lost in all the brouhaha but I did read a post from the OP in which he admitted that the Master WAS polite.
Basically - he just didn’t care for the response. Again - I’m not sure what everyone is supposed to do about that. Sometimes the answer is going to be no, or we don’t have a field that would accommodate you, or that the rider or horse lack the necessary skills to keep up with that particular hunt’s territory.
Maybe it’s just the Lord’s honest truth and there is no malice behind the comment. Maybe a hunt that declines is merely trying to make sure people don’t get hurt or killed.
Too many people are eager to assume that it’s a “snobbery” thing. Maybe it makes them feel better but it may not be the truth.
ETA - And the last thing I care to be involved in is hunt politics. I don’t know the OP, don’t know the members of the hunts in question, etc.
[QUOTE=wanabe;4494067]
First, let me say that the MASTER was the name given to contact, on that hunt’s website.
Second, I said “first flight horse” as short hand for “I will be riding first flight, and I would like a horse that is suitable for that”. I wish I had used the longer praseology, or not even brought it up in the initial communication.
I HAVE taken note of the examples given and will use them in the future.
Neither my hunt’s secretary OR master are aware of any such tradition requiring master-to-master contact. So, how was I to absorb that?
Finally, yes I did re-contact and apologize for breaking some rule of etiquette, and said I would have my master contact her and spent several sentences giving my background.
Although she was polite, she implied that I lacked experience, and needed to purchase a horse and trailer (and truck), also that, and I quote:
“Those who are busy day in and day out making the Hunt and the hunting don’t always take kindly to hearing about your adventures on the road. It is almost always novices who want to hunt around, or those veterans who aren’t entirely welcome anywhere.”
Regarding email vs phone contact. I may not know all the rules of hunting etiquette, but I think I am qualified to say that an email contact is much preferable to phone, when contacting someone initially.
Finally, the hunt secretary is not listed on the website as a contact. The master is given as a contact, first on the list, and her email is provided. Why wouldn’t I use it?[/QUOTE]
Regardless of the OP’s generous terminology, I do not think that this is a polite response. Some posters insist the OP was derelict in duty by not more fully describing his/her hunting background, then when he/she does, the response is that the hunt is far too busy to listen to someone’s “adventures on the road”? Really? And implying that the OP is either a novice who wants to “hunt around” (is that like sleeping around?) or a veteran who is “not entirely welcome”? How is that not offensive? Sets a pretty low standard for “polite,” if you ask me.
What ever happened to a simple, “Thank you for your interest in XYZ Hunt, but we do not have anything that would meet your needs at this time. Best wishes, XYZ Hunt.”
Nobody’s saying the hunt has to accept a visitor, but a little grace in the refusal would go a long way.
Well, I’ve just perused the entire thread again, and no, I do not see the basis for some of what you have posted, at all. In post #50 the OP did relate that in a follow up phone call made as suggested in this thread, the Master was polite- but then when he stated the phrasing of the Master’s remarks- well, on the merits the Master’s remarks were valid, but in my opinion, rudely stated. Again- being rude in response to rudeness, whether from ignorance or malice, is wrong in my opinion and reflects poorly on that Master and that hunt.
You stated in post #101 that “There is much more to the story than the OP revealed to you…” Well, whatever additional knowledge you might have isn’t evident on this thread- could be true (whatever it is), could be completely bogus for all I know- but it remains beside the point as far as I am concerned. I remain of the opinion that the Master’s initial response was rude, uncalled for, and reflects poorly on our sport. Again- reviewing the facts- the OP perused hunt web sites and followed web site instructions for contacting the hunt- and was slammed here for that! Silly newbie- you are supposed to know better than to follow web site instructions- ‘everybody’ knows that you are supposed to call (or furnish a letter of introduction, which is a lovely tradition not specific to hunting, but one that died decades ago).
As I recall, you slammed the OP initially for even posting the question- well, again, it didn’t strike me as being maliciously motivated, but even if it was- my overarching concern is that we- ‘foxhunters’- not just masters or members- need to take the high road if there’s any hope for long term viability of our sport. My concern has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with the legitimacy of why we do certain necessary things like insuring riding competency of prospective members or guests. My point is, was, will remain- there is NO EXCUSE for rudeness- even if you are a Master.
To be perfectly blunt about the safety and riding competency aspect- and maybe we need to kill this thread and start another about the future of the sport so people will untwist their knickers- it is true for all riding disciplines today, I think, that out-of-arena experience is slim to none for most riders- so it’s an economic fact of life that for hunting to continue with enough members to pay the bills, less experienced riders are going to have to be accommodated. This isn’t a new thing- when I started hunting there were NO fields other than first flight- every now and then a few people would show up and hilltop but it certainly wasn’t an advertised feature. Today, I don’t offhand know of a hunt that doesn’t have an organized 2nd, 3rd, and etc flight. With this trend, I perceive an increased ‘customer’ expectation that new foxhunters will be ‘taken care of’ if they are short on riding skills. Well, that’s for each hunt to decide- balancing safety and economics among other things. But, that said- we won’t catch more flies if we use vinegar instead of honey.
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt?
[QUOTE=JSwan;4509160]These issues drive almost every decision an org, club, or individual makes. Where to hold an event. How to encourage people to donate their time, money, or land. How to protect those people from being punished for their generosity (lawsuits) How to ensure everyone is safe, responsible, and has a good time. How to feed everyone, entertain everyone, and make sure everything is perfect.
All that costs a tremendous amount of money - as anyone who has priced event coverage can tell you. An army of volunteers is needed - year 'round. The volunteers take no pay, ask for nothing, and usually dig deep into their pockets and donate to help make an event enjoyable for everyone.
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt?
The only protection offered an organizer/club/org and the landowner is in the form of the measly Recreational Use and Equine Activity Liability Statutes. Neither of which offer that much protection, to be quite honest.
All over the US, people are closing their land to hunting, trail riding, and showing and it’s for two reasons.
-
Fear of a lawsuit.
-
Hostility to equestrians (foxhunters or not)
Public land is in danger too - as equestrians are often excluded from trails and facilities.
There is no way to get that land back. There is no way to regain goodwill once it’s been lost.
[/quote]
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt?
[QUOTE=JSwan;4509160]Far from “talking out of my ass”, I’m being frank and direct. Hunt clubs - ALL hunt clubs - not just mounted foxhunters - MUST screen guests and members a little. And we MUST all focus on safety - which may include excusing people who are dangerous, disrespectful or irresponsible.
You can’t treat volunteers, landowners and donors like crap and then expect them to lay out the red carpet for you.
[/quote]
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt? (apparently you can treat possible paying hunt members like crap, though?)
[QUOTE=JSwan;4509160]That goes for horse trials, dressage shows, endurance - all horse sports. I’ve seen volunteers and show organizers treated like sh** by competitors.
And frankly - there are always those who are determined to take offense no matter how well worded a response is. Please remember that the OP did go on later to state that the Master HAD been polite. Basically - he didn’t like the answer. Well… not sure what anyone is supposed to do about that.
[/quote]
To me, nothing the master stated was ‘well worded’. Please explain where implying lack of a horse means someone is not vested in a sport.
[QUOTE=JSwan;4509160]Note that there is an article on COTH about the Equine Activity Liability Statutes - and that statutes limitations.
Another threat to hunting is something most of you may not be aware of. It is the increasing popularity of leasing hunting rights.
More and more, landowners are being encouraged to sell or lease the hunting rights on their land.
[/quote]
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt?
[QUOTE=JSwan;4509160]Foxhunting requires enormous tracts of land. If landowners start charging a lease none of you will be hunting much longer. Unless you are truly very wealthy.
One hunting lease could keep a dairy from going under, or a farmer from bankruptcy after losing his crop. So why shouldn’t he charge a fee to hunt his land? Or sell his rights?
[/quote]
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt?
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt?
I think there is a disconnect here. I have not seen anyone state that wanabe ‘deserved’ to be invited to the hunt in any way, only that the master should have shown better manners.
People find out I ride and ask to ride with me a lot. For selfish reasons, I do not want to babysit a fairly novice rider while I am working on my own horse. I have never asked why these people do not own a horse or implied they need their own truck and trailer before I decide they are serious. I have stated that I only own one horse, so would have to find another one. When asked about trail riding, I simply state that there are no real trails at my facility. All reasonable answers to an inquiry. I never say 'well, I don’t want to babysit you because since you don’t own a horse, obviously you cannot ride well.
This is the base of my issue with the communications between the master and wanabe, from the information I have at hand. Sometimes I think I want to try fox hunting. I do not know any fox hunters, though. Then I read threads like these and responses from some of the posters about what should be known turn me off to even trying. It seems no matter how polite I would try to be, it would never be good enough and that is to much work for me.
Because it can place answers and conversations into context.
The OP is not that much of a newbie - and he knows enough about how foxhunting works to appreciate that folks can want to know a bit more about a person before letting them hunt.
The responses and comments since his initial posting have been all over the place - but most seem to indicate that many horse people don’t give a crap about what the rules are, or take the opportunity to make comments about this “elite” or “snobby” sport based upon what?
Concerns about liability and safety? Reminding people we hunt on private land? Being concerned about the competence and ability of horse and rider?
Some people are upset about accidents they’ve seen in the hunt field - but yet efforts to make sure people are safe are considered “snobby”.
Y’all don’t know what you want. If you want a safe, enjoyable sport in which members are responsible and respectful - someone has to make those determinations.
I trust the people that hunt on my land to make those determinations - and I’ve never been disappointed. I’ve also never been ridiculed by a sportsman the way y’all have ridiculed this landowner (and by extension - all landowners) - who is letting people hunt on her land when she could be charging them for that privilege.
I don’t think intentional rudeness is appropriate - but I also think that many people seem intent on inferring the worst possible motives. Perceiving rudeness and snobbery where none is implied or intended. And no matter how flowery someone phrases a response - there are always those who will be offended. It’s a no-win situation.
Many newcomers are mentored and watched over by others - and occasionally the feedback is not going to be what you want to hear. They’re not trying to disparage you, ridicule you, or ostracize you. They’re trying to help. Their efforts may be clumsy - but their intent is good.
That may very well have been what that Master was trying to do - trying to give advice to someone who is newish and not overly experienced - and certainly not experienced with that hunt’s territory.
Maybe the Master just didn’t want to see someone in the field that was overmounted and a danger to himself or others.
Or - y’all can assume that the only possible interpretation is that hunt clubs are full of elitist cliques of snobby landowners. Good fodder for trainwrecks - but about as accurate as the accusations that eventers beat their horses to get them around xc.
[quote=Ajierene;4509562]
What does this have to do with manners when someone follows the directions provided to ask about capping with a hunt?
Ajierene said what I was wondering. Why does JSwan keep going off on tangents about “landowners don’t get no respect”?
y’all can assume that the only possible interpretation is that hunt clubs are full of elitist cliques of snobby landowners.
Landowners form cliques? When I was a hunt member, most of the land we hunted was not owned by hunt club members. Landowners were the ones who needed to be shielded from the snobby elitism of hunt club members. Hunt club attitudes and perceptions about foxhunters were why landowners would refuse to allow access.
You continue to justify the master’s rude response as somehow appropriate to the situation or justified. The master’s response sounds snooty and entitled to me, and that attitude is more likely to cost riders open space.
You also seem to equate being a member of a hunt with superior riding skills and horsemanship. Umm, not so much. Certainly there were superb horsepeople in my old hunt, but holy moley, there was ignorance and poor riding the likes of which I’ve never seen in any other discipline, outside of beginner lesson programs. And that was most certainly not the guests, it was the members! There seemed to be a different standard in particular for men.
You know who I’d worry most about suing me if he/she had an accident happened on my property? A lawyer! You know what a fair number of hunt members do for a living?
:lol:
