Yes, if you see abuse at a show, you need to go to the steward and report it. If it’s awful and you just watch and say nothing? Part of the problem not a solution.
Or even the barn, TBH. animal abuse is abuse. Reporting (with evidence, obviously) turns the spotlight on that trainer with AHA. If what you claim you’ve seen is true JLR1, you are part of the problem.
[QUOTE=JLR1;8242201]
Sorry Mares Rosey and Red, like Oldernewbie there are things I have seen, that can’t be unseen. What goes on in the show ring is mild compared to what happens at home or gasp behind the barn at a show. And while Boggs got his hand slapped, he is out there still making money and STILL winning! The top trainers with the top horses are not known for their gentle handling techniques. So while your experiences on whatever circuit you show at may be kinder and gentler, don’t kid yourself that getting to the top at a show like Scottsdale is won that way.[/QUOTE]
As I implied before, your mind is made up. There is nothing anything anyone can say to change it.
If you’ve seen actual abuse, and not done anything about it, then you are a pretty sorry excuse for a person.
There is a difference though between “abuse” and different training methods or goals. I’ve found most who rant about abuse really can’t tell the difference.
I saw pictures of a Hackney pony cross a friend sold. What his new owner did to him was absolutely stomach turning; but it wasn’t abuse.
[QUOTE=Calamber;8239452]
Yes, I helped prepped a young mare back in the stone age (1968 when I was 12) for halter classes, she was reserve champion in her class at the Richmond, Va Arabian Show and showed in Quentin, PA where we forgot to put on the fly spray and she could not stand still so did not place. There were no such dramatic classes like this, the stallions were showy but never out of hand. I think this stuff is counterproductive to the horse and really dislike how they constantly throw their heads up in the air because of the correction. [/QUOTE]
Agreed. These horses are beautiful, but the handling is atrocious.
A friend of mine worked at a straight Egyptian Arabian halter horse farm back in the 80’s, helping prep youngsters to show. There was no jerking on the lead at all. A dressage whip was used to cue (not whip) the horse on position and a little ball of alfalfa hidden in the fist was used to get the horse to stretch its head forward once it had been set up. The horses were gorgeous, very expressive, very smart and very natural.
I used to love walking into the pasture and watch them all go into that big floaty trot with tails flagging or flipped over their backs, heads up and necks arched. Even the small foals did it. All natural and far more attractive than what’s going on in this video…
IMO, the way Arab halter horses are shown these days is a total turnoff to all but those who are deeply entrenched (and invested) in this ridiculousness. It’s been a sure fire way to reduce the popularity of the breed. Note how few new registrations there have been over the past several years. Yes the economy has been bad. And yes, other breeds have seen a downturn. But not quite as dramatic as the Arabian breed. It’s too bad. But I don’t see anything changing soon.
So the thing I don’t understand about this at all is that there were a lot of really gorgeous horses in this class that were amazing floating movers, and the winner was one that had a lateral canter and a choppy trot but the prettiest head? It won prettiest head and the overall competition which I find just bizarre. can any Arabian people explain that to me? That one bay and the chestnut were just amazing floaty movers and lovely to look at…don’t get it.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8243167]
So the thing I don’t understand about this at all is that there were a lot of really gorgeous horses in this class that were amazing floating movers, and the winner was one that had a lateral canter and a choppy trot but the prettiest head? It won prettiest head and the overall competition which I find just bizarre. can any Arabian people explain that to me? That one bay and the chestnut were just amazing floaty movers and lovely to look at…don’t get it.[/QUOTE]
You’ve hit on one of the real problems in Arab showing, which is that spectators (and often competitors) have a REAL hard time figuring out exactly what wins. My dad came to watch me show, as a non horse person, and determined that my horse and I needed a bigger cheering section that hooted and hollered and stamped when we came in, and also that my horse needed a longer tail and some of the black goo.
Now, none of that was true, in my case, my horse and I were soundly beaten by a spectacular horse… But still. My dad watched a lot of classes that day and is a smart man. He couldn’t figure out any of the criteria, and concluded that the most reliable way to win seemed to be to have sponsored the class. When he watches me compete in dressage and especially in jumping, it’s very easy for him to pretty accurately determine why horses placed the way they did.
When I showed, they had recently started using a scoresheet for halter, that seemed very sensible. I don’t know how well that’s been working in the years since. It gave weightings for all types of things, gait, type, etc, and showed a rubric, describing what was ideal and what was faulted.
Having a show placed in a way that spectators can’t follow is a good way to turn people away. It’s definitely something that was being discussed when I was involved, even at my bottom/peon level.
[QUOTE=SportArab;8243004]
IMO, the way Arab halter horses are shown these days is a total turnoff to all but those who are deeply entrenched (and invested) in this ridiculousness. It’s been a sure fire way to reduce the popularity of the breed. Note how few new registrations there have been over the past several years. Yes the economy has been bad. And yes, other breeds have seen a downturn. But not quite as dramatic as the Arabian breed. It’s too bad. But I don’t see anything changing soon.[/QUOTE]
Truth!
[QUOTE=red mares;8242623]
As I implied before, your mind is made up. There is nothing anything anyone can say to change it.
If you’ve seen actual abuse, and not done anything about it, then you are a pretty sorry excuse for a person.
There is a difference though between “abuse” and different training methods or goals. I’ve found most who rant about abuse really can’t tell the difference.
I saw pictures of a Hackney pony cross a friend sold. What his new owner did to him was absolutely stomach turning; but it wasn’t abuse.[/QUOTE]
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Some people don’t think water boarding is abuse either 
[QUOTE=rugbygirl;8243180]
You’ve hit on one of the real problems in Arab showing, which is that spectators (and often competitors) have a REAL hard time figuring out exactly what wins. My dad came to watch me show, as a non horse person, and determined that my horse and I needed a bigger cheering section that hooted and hollered and stamped when we came in, and also that my horse needed a longer tail and some of the black goo.
Now, none of that was true, in my case, my horse and I were soundly beaten by a spectacular horse… But still. My dad watched a lot of classes that day and is a smart man. He couldn’t figure out any of the criteria, and concluded that the most reliable way to win seemed to be to have sponsored the class. When he watches me compete in dressage and especially in jumping, it’s very easy for him to pretty accurately determine why horses placed the way they did.
When I showed, they had recently started using a scoresheet for halter, that seemed very sensible. I don’t know how well that’s been working in the years since. It gave weightings for all types of things, gait, type, etc, and showed a rubric, describing what was ideal and what was faulted.
Having a show placed in a way that spectators can’t follow is a good way to turn people away. It’s definitely something that was being discussed when I was involved, even at my bottom/peon level.[/QUOTE]
Thanks! That is helpful. A few of those horses had just lovely suspension, they would be great dressage types. Really beautiful to watch. I was just shocked at the results. But if they don’t appreciate that floaty bay I will take him! 
Chiming in again with the historical (aka old fart) perspective: People have been continually complaining to AHA for the last 30 years. That’s how they’ve managed to get it cleaned up to this point. There are quite a few new rules about cameras in the barn etc to monitor what people are doing behind the scenes. I also think the advent of social media has helped a lot - when Boggs put a welt on a halter horse in Scottsdale a few years back, it was all over the internet. This sort of negative publicity seems to be really effective in getting AHA to pay attention. But, like all breed organizations, they are amazingly slow to change, even with incredible outside pressure.
Regarding filing a complaint - Shirley Nowak (a very upstanding and no nonsense steward for a long, long time) said in an interview recently that she was threatened by competitors when she tried to enforce the rules. I think she still did her job, but I was kinda outraged that no one followed up on that. Why should someone who is basically a volunteer have to put up with that kind of crap over a horse show? But these are the not very nice folks we are talking about who give not a thought to what winning at all costs means. Don’t think that one protest is going to stop them.
It’s no wonder that people don’t show main ring as much any more. It’s just not fun!
I had a very interesting conversation some years back with a man who had been a steward at Scottsdale. He witnessed a halter horse being “schooled” in a clearly abusive manner at night, and videotaped it.
The videotape was conveniently “lost” by show management.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8243167]
So the thing I don’t understand about this at all is that there were a lot of really gorgeous horses in this class that were amazing floating movers, and the winner was one that had a lateral canter and a choppy trot but the prettiest head? It won prettiest head and the overall competition which I find just bizarre. can any Arabian people explain that to me? That one bay and the chestnut were just amazing floaty movers and lovely to look at…don’t get it.[/QUOTE]
I thought he had a funky back and the back end didn’t really match the front end, too. Didn’t even think his head was all that pretty though maybe the rest of his conformation was throwing me off…
I am IN LOVE with that chestnut though. What a chunky hunk while also managing to look very typey. In the ‘little girl who wanted to own her own Black Stallion’ part of my mind, when I think Arab he’s pretty much what I see.
None of them seemed actually freaked out. Seemed to know exactly what was expected of them. It was pretty obvious with most that they aren’t really being abused with those sticks, as they were actually following the stick with eager, happy faces rather than avoiding. And the one guy at the end who just relaxed right up and went to the crowd for cuddles? Yeah… they knew what they were doing and were under control. Couple of the handlers seemed a little flipped out though! I think the one horse got smacked not because the handler was trying to smack him, but because the handler was more twitchy than any of the horses out there and smacked him on the way to moving the stick to his other hand… at least, if the part I saw is what everyone else was talking about (I did look away from the screen a couple times so may have missed something worse?)
One last tidbit… Boggs the younger got set down by USEF in the last year or so for using cocaine on a halter horse. I swear I had an 80s flashback when I read that. Quite honestly, I fault the horse owners who have either drunk the koolaid or are craven enough to win no matter what. It’s not like any of this stuff is a big secret. They should know what their horses are in for if they send them there.
The only thing that bothered me was the chains running under the chin, and the horses being constantly bopped with it for no reason.
Welsh Cob showing in the UK is similar. I actually don’t mind watching but would rather not have to handle a horse with ground manners like that 
The smack happens around 1:44 minutes into the video. It’s not the horse being shown, but the horse standing with the handler (in the right hand bottom of the screen).
I used to work in a barn that had National and International top-10 halter mares. They were a dream to work with on the ground. Clipped, bathed, tied and led very easily. One big mare was rather spooky at times, but she would step away from me and do a little dance, never once trying to trample over me! But they knew their job in the ring. The owner was once showing off his national champion mare and even while pregnant she got into the pose with little more than the whip signal! These mares and his stallions live like queens and kings, too. The facility is amazing and they get turned out every day in good weather. In bad weather, I would exercise them in the large covered round-pen.
Even the ones who came straight from the show season were calm, relaxed and easy to handle.
I loved it. Did anyone watch the liberty vid?
O, and my best friend bought an Arab mare with a 3 mo filly at foot … as her first horse. One of the things that impressed me when they picked the two up, when the filly would not load, the mare got turned around to look out of the trailer (so she could nicker and call to the filly). The mare was dancing in place, totally under control and was so very careful not to step on her novice handler. It was so obvious that this mare was being careful that I loved her from that day forward. Her filly…not so much. Not handled enough and kind of a stupid mare.
I laughed when I saw the first horse run in.
It’s a rather unusual way to show the horses, but I guess they want to demonstrate their “untamed” nature. I don’t like the look of horse kites, it looks out of control and as if there are no rules. I’m not saying it’s wrong, but in my opinion it looks silly.
As for the chain bopping and high-heads, that’s also not my style. I like long and low or level, not that backwards-neck dropped back look. That chestnut and the bay were stunning horses. I do think most looked freaked out based on ear movements, stood-up hind end and eyes rolling. Horse body language is my “thing” and they didn’t exactly look comfortable or happy.
Actually, if you watch the grey, he is constantly searching for the right answer, and when his handler smacks him with the lead, or waves the whip, the horse quickly tries to strike/run forward into the handler to retaliate.
#337 is the only handler who’s horse isn’t terrified of him, if you watch closely.
ETA: If they did this same type of showing with TBs, there would be deaths! (Human, of course). While an Arabian may be kind enough to tolerate this, a TB would indeed kick/strike it’s handler dead!
