I thought I knew how to read this doggone thing. My hay guy said it tested at “12%”, sent me the report, I think it’s more like 18%. I cannot find anything definitive via googling.
Here it is:
NSC 21.86
Starch 3.22
ESC 12.03
WSC 14.81
(WSC - ESC = 2.78 fructans)
(WSC + Starch = 18.03)
So which is it??? Just how high in sugar is this hay?
TIA!!
Were these the dry matter results or as sampled?
I’m curious how the company determined the NSC… do you know? I’m no expert, but I’ve only ever seen it calculated WSC + Starch or ESC + Starch. Not sure how they got 21.86? Almost looks more like an NFC value…
Hay guy sounds like he is either dyslexic, didn’t understand what you were asking, or didn’t care what he was telling you…
What type of horse(s) are you feeding this to?
NSC is starch + either WSC or ESC, depending on which method you subscribe to.
Right, neither of which come to the listed 21.86… unless they are mixing dry matter and as sampled numbers in the same results without delineating which is which.
I’m betting that NSC 21.86 is actually NFC. Otherwise it makes no sense to me with what else you have posted there.
Like JB posted, NSC is either WSC+starch or ESC+starch. I opted for WSC+starch when I was hay shopping for my IR horse as that was typically the higher of the two and I figured that kept me safe no matter what. It wasn’t clear to me if OP needs low sugar hay for a special needs horse like that, but if so, it would seem too high no matter which NSC calculation you go by.
@JB, @Texarkana , @horsepoor, - The values I listed were dry matter, sorry I didn’t specify.
I do not “need” low sugar hay per se, but like to stick in the 10-12% range, which clearly this hay is not. However, friends do need LS hay, and I am sourcing out hay for them also.
I thought to get a correct read you added WSC or ESC + starch. And hay guy was obviously only reading the ESC (glad he sent me the actual report or I’d never have known).
I thought I knew how to read this and thought he was wrong - and turns out I’m right - phew…
I had only bought 2 bales of this to sample, won’t be buying anymore.
Also I have no idea where they got 21.86 total NSC as you all are right - it doesn’t add up.
I wouldn’t have any qualms about feeding this to healthy horses with no metabolic issues. But it would not be a good choice for your friends.
Just curious- what company did the sampling? Did it say on the report he sent you?
I can’t tell what company…that part of the paper is cut off in the text he sent me.
Anyway I free feed grass hay to my two TB’s, with alfalfa making up the rest, so I like their grass hay to be “average”, rather than “prime”. One is retired the other is working, but still…
There’s no information in this report to determine whether or not this is “prime” hay. The only information reported is sugars & starches; an 18% NSC is the high end of normal for grass. You would need to know a lot more numbers to determine if this is rocket fuel. But I can understand wanting to go for lower sugars and starches to be safe, since metabolic issues are one of those things that aren’t a problem until they are.
I have the full report. It’s at the upper end of quality especially for first cut orchard.
No need to overthink this; all I posted was sugar values because I thought I must be nuts, but I was not. 
And yes, avoidance is good policy!!
I"m curious what the ADF and NDF are for this hay.
Arggh!! Can’t tell if you guys are giving me a hard time here or what! :lol::lol:
Eastern Oregon First Cut Orchard Grass Hay, specifically from Madras, OR.
ADF: 32.40 Dry Matter (wet chem test)
NDF: 54.14 Dry Matter (wc)
Crude Protein: 13.00
ADICP (%) 1.33 (IR)
NDICP Sulfite Free (%) 3.76 (IR)
Protein Solubility (%) 29.82 (IR)
Relative feed value: 109.38
Relative forage quality: 144.17
DE-Equine (Mcal/lb DM) 1.71
:lol: :lol: No, not at all! Well, not me :winkgrin: I just get curious when NSC is on the higher side, and someone says it’s fantastic hay 
High quality hay has ADF in the range of 25-35%, and NDF in the 35-55 range. That would put this in the lower end of digestibility and palatability within that desired range, all else equal. It’s just something to use to compare to other hays if there are choices. But if the horse eats it well, that’s what matters 
As long as NDF is under 60% or so (because you then get into increased impaction territory with high indigestible lignin) and the horse likes it, it’s all good. I was just curious
@JB … Yes, but remember, this is FIRST cut… I don’t care which side of Oregon it comes from, first cut is always a bit “coarse” and this is…I’ve never seen first cut this nice. (Which is why I bought 2 bales to try).
I was actually surprised to see the ADF/NDF values so high, given the amount of leaf on this hay.
Grower is doing a first rate job, really. Just wish the sugars were a bit lower.
Oh and this is an oddity (at least to me): The supplier has tons of this first cut available, and when I asked about second cut he said he doesn’t put up much because nobody seems to want it. 
He said they either want first or third.
Go figure.
The cut # is fairly irrelevant without more info First cut in May is not the same as a first cut in June I’m curious - was this first cutting done pretty much the same time as normal? Was your Spring normal weather? Here, we had a pretty hot Spring - we turned our AC on about a month early 
I’m sure that has affected the “first cut” of my guy’s fields.
In the end what matters most is whether the horse likes it enough to eat enough of it, and whether it supplies enough calories and nutrients. Or, for the easier keeper, if he only likes it well enough to begrudgingly eat it and therefore self-regulates more easily :winkgrin:
I don’t think the ADF and NDF are high. I think the ADF and NDF are fine and expected for orchard grass hay, especially hay reported as being nice.
As JB noted, 25-35% ADF and under 55% NDF are considered “high quality.” This hay still falls in the high quality range, even though it’s towards the higher end.
It’s when you go beyond those parameters that you see marked decrease in digestibility.
The average range for grass hay (which is how orchard gets categorized), according to Dairy One, is ADF from 34-43% and NDF from 55-69%.
But this is all a moot point, since the OP is looking for something different.
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