What do you all think of this hay analysis? This would be for my mare who is a medium to hard keeper.
I’m used to seeing NSC, nonstructural carbs, rather than NFC, nonfiber carbs, on my hay analysis.
http://www.horsefeedblog.com/2011/04/types-of-carbohydrates-in-horse-feed-diets/
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/equine/how-are-sugars-and-starch-measured-hay
You have 27 % NFC. 27 % NSC would be off the charts high (I’ve had hay test at 25 %), but if NSC is understood as WSC plus starch, the sugar levels here are modest at about 13 %.
OK protein at about 11 %.
hay sounds like it is fairly fine at 38 % ADF.
But really you also have to see it, see whether it is fine enough, clean, sweet smelling, etc.
Thanks Scribber! Would this be on the lower end of sugar levels? I’ve been warned about this hay dealer, was told the hay is super high in sugar and could cause lami/founder.
I have seen the hay, it’s the small compressed bales. Super heavy, very fine and smells lovely. It is a bit powdery because of the compression process.
The WSC is 9.88% and starch is 1.85%. Its in a different place than Equianalytical has it, so its easy to miss. Its higher than I’d want for a metabolic horse, easy keeper or pony/mini…but it might be ok for your horse. Crude protein is nice at 9.95%. That’s the good news.
The thing that concerns me is the Ca:P ratio, which is quite high (5:1). Correcting that is difficult, since you’d need to add phosphorus which isn’t palatable. For a mature horse, this is within the acceptable range…if there’s enough phosphorus to meet requirements (which there isn’t in this hay).
Assuming the horse is 1000lbs and hay is fed at 1.5% of body weight, that’s 15lbs of hay. The horse has a Ca requirement of 30.2g and P requirement of 22.3g. 15lbs of this hay provides 54.4g of Ca, which is within safe levels. But it fails to meet P requirements, since it only provides 10.8g. I’d pass on this hay, unless you have access to a high phosphorus, palatable feed that’ll balance out this hay.
http://www.extension.umn.edu/agriculture/horse/nutrition/vitamins-and-minerals/
https://kppusa.com/tips-and-topics/ratio-calcium-phosphorus-important-horses-diet/
You can get a 1-month subscription to FeedXL to put in your hay analyses to compare multiple options and decide what is best.
[QUOTE=Chestnut_Mare;8964942]
Thanks Scribber! Would this be on the lower end of sugar levels? I’ve been warned about this hay dealer, was told the hay is super high in sugar and could cause lami/founder.
I have seen the hay, it’s the small compressed bales. Super heavy, very fine and smells lovely. It is a bit powdery because of the compression process.[/QUOTE]
Nonstructural carbs in hay are almost all sugars, except for the tiny amount of starch. 13 % is low, in my books. I was feeding 25 % NSC grass hay from the BC Lower Mainland for a few years! If you had a metabolically challenged horse, the rule of thumb is under 11 %. But normal horses do fine on higher sugar hays, just like normal people can drink apple juice and eat bread, but diabetics have to be super careful what they eat.
Hay dealers buy their hay wherever, and sell it on at a markup. Ask the dealer where it was grown. If it was grown in the dry belt (the BC or Washington interior) this could be an accurate reading. If it was grown in the rain belt (BC Lower Mainland or Island) it would likely be much higher in NSC.
So I can’t see why all of a dealer’s hay would be high sugar, low sugar, whatever. I can see why all of a farmer’s hay grown on the same property in the same climate zone might trend one way or another. But I can’t see why all of a dealer’s hay would be high sugar, if he is buying different kinds of hay from different areas.
If this is indeed an accurate test of the hay you are buying, then there is no real worry about the NSC. Of course it is always possible that a dealer could send out the wrong analysis, or swap hay. It is just as likely that the person who is telling you this does not know what they are talking about and thinks that fine hay is high sugar, coarse hay is low sugar. This is not at all true. You need to evaluate who is telling you what, and whether they know what they are talking about. I recommend Julie Getty’s book “Feed your horse like a horse.”
You can also talk on the phone with the very helpful nutritionists at Otter Co-op in Aldergrove. Long distance for you, but probably well worth it.
As far as the Ca:P ratio, the ratio on the local hay I had tested was 6:1, which I think might be a typical ratio for the region. You can get a vitamin/mineral supplement to balance things out. Also, grains typically have a higher P to Ca ratio, so oats, bran, soymeal, etc will help balance that out if needed. Again, talk to the nutritionists.
https://kppusa.com/tips-and-topics/ratio-calcium-phosphorus-important-horses-diet/
Agree on Ca:P and also, NSC too high for my taste–this looks more like an orchard grass hay seen in the Mid-East from that angle.
But the Ca:P is bigger concern because I don’t know how you accommodate that.
NSC, assuming it’s the fairly commonly used WSC + Starch, isn’t all that high. It’s less than 12%. It’s not LOW, like the <10% that IR horses typically need, but I definitely wouldn’t call it high by any means.
I started wondering if this was alfalfa, with that really high Ca:P ratio, and the higher calories, but the protein didn’t fit. I’m assuming it’s a Timothy based on the file name.
The low phos is a problem for sure, as stated. This is where unfortified rice bran can come in handy, but without doing the math I don’t know how much you’d have to feed to get into the desired range.
The 35 ADF and 48 NDF are pretty good - should be very tasty hay.
If the price is right, and you can do the math on the rice bran AND the horse can take those calories, there are far worse hays
The horse is too skinny for my liking - this is why I am search for better hay options. I’m on Vancouver Island where the local hay is really crappy. Non-local hay is very expensive here. She is currently eating timothy from Washington state at $30/bale. She is not gaining weight and is still in the 3-4 range on the Henneke Score despite having good quality hay 24/7 with soaked alfalfa pellets, high fat complete feed and supplements. She’s ridden lightly 2 times per week. I’m so frustrated and feel like I’m spending all my energy on getting her to gain weight.
How much of the concentrates is she getting? What feed/supplements specifically?
It’s not a terrible hay, it’s actually pretty good outside that phosphorous deal.
OP looking at your previous posts, it sounds like you had the horse in a questionable boarding situation where you weren’t sure she was getting fed what was promised, and now you are moving her to your home place? So I assume that this hay test is in preparation to stocking up your own hay loft?
Has the horse been wormed? Had a vet check? Teeth? is she wearing a blanket? You say hay 24/7 but how much is she actually eating? If she is leaving hay on the ground, has it been trampled on or rained on so that she won’t eat it? Or if the hay is in a net bag, is she reluctant to pull it all out? In general, skinny horses or anorexic horses shouldn’t get slow feeders since it discourages them from eating.
Once you get her home, perhaps you can experiment with a few days of feeding multiple times a day, so you can count and watch how many flakes she is eating.
The other thing you should do is get a fish scale or luggage scale and big IKEA or Costco bag, and weigh your flakes of hay as you feed them. Twenty pounds per day is the basic rule of thumb, but some horses need up to 30 pounds. Or an easy keeper might only need 15.
Also, how much concentrate complete feed are you feeding, and which one?
If you get her home, put a turnout blanket on her, she is eating up 25 or 30 pounds of hay a day, and you are feeding the recommended levels of the complete feed (which could be a couple of kilograms), and after a month she is still noticeably skinny, then it is time for a vet workup.
I’m assuming this is not a senior horse. All bets are off for seniors. Some of them just can’t chew anything or can’t digest or metabolize.
But since the previous (current?) board situation sounded dubious, I would not worry too much until you have a month of conscientous feeding under your own eye.
Glad to see JB seconded my take on the hay looking pretty good! I’d only add that, based on the tests of hay I’ve done in the same area, that the Ca:P ratio might be typical of the regional hay. The heavy rain washed the minerals out of the soil.
Thank you JB, Scribber and all who have replied so far.
You are right I’m looking for good hay to stock up on when she comes home.
She is 13 so not a senior. Blanketed and getting hay loose as well as in a net morning and night. I started feeding a second grain feeding at night so she is getting two now. Her grain consists of soaked alfalfa cubes, 2 cups of step 8 and various supplements. All that soaked fills an 8 quart bucket per feeding.
I have not taken her blanket off in 5 days due to work and heavy snow and this morning show looks even more ribby.
Should I increase the step 8? She’s getting 4 cups in total now.
How many pounds of hay a day is she getting?
How many alfalfa cubes? How much Step 8 by weight? IME, oats or beet pulp run about 3 cups to the pound. So you are feeding 2/3 pound. If you look at the feeding recommendations on the Hi Pro website, they are saying up to 5 lbs per day. I’d say that 2 cups is negligible in terms of nutrition.
Soaked volume size is irrelevant. Beet pulp or alfalfa cubes will expand like crazy in a mash, especially if you use hot water. that’s nice to trick an easy keeper into thinking she has a big meal 
but the measurement that counts is the dry weight.
https://www.hiprofeeds.com/products/step-8-hi-fat-horse-feed
Get a fish scale or luggage scale so you can weigh what you are feeding. Figure out how much the scoop you use weighs. For instance, I know that my yogurt container filled to the top measures a pound of oats, a pound of beet pellets, but only 3/4 pound of alfalfa cubes.
You also need to weigh your hay so you know how much you are feeding.
That’s 3 cups to the pound using a measure that is a true cup, i.e. 250 millilitres. If you are using something that is cup-shaped but of unknown volume, then the weight could be anything. And if your step 8 feed is less dense or heavy than pure oats or beet pellets, a true cup will weigh less than that.
So yes, I would say it is safe to increase her Step 8 substantially, though gradually. You could be feeding up to almost 5 time what she gets now (though weigh to be sure). That said, the Hi Pro formulas tend to be high NSC even when they say they aren’t and are based on non-fixed ingredients, typically corn/barlye/wheat/oats. The ingredients are not available online. You will have to email them to ask the ingredients and the NSC.
Actually I have a copy of their ingredients, and Step 8 says wheat and canola meal at the top, then canola oil. They don’t post an NSC.
I was feeding their maintenance Step 5 just as a clicker treat and asked about the NSC. It turns out it is 44 % which is almost as high as pure oats. I had chosen it just based on the size of the kibble so not getting that again!
I will try to weigh the hay, but she is getting enough that she never runs out. When she moves home I’ll be feeding the hay in the first post.
I just weighed the step 8 and alfalfa cubes. She is currently getting 5 lbs of alfalfa cubes (dry weight) and 2 lbs of step 8 in 2 feedings. I will increase the step 8 to 5 lbs right away, but she needs to weigh at least 1300 lbs. Does that mean she can go up to around 7 lbs?
Feed based on how much she should weigh.
If you look at the feeding directions, Step 8 says up to 5 pounds a day.
I’d suggest emailing hi=pro and finding out what the actual NSC is of this feed. Also get them to send the pdf of the ingredients to you. I personally would not want to feed something that is primarily wheat to my horse. I don’t think it’s the best grain for horses.
You don’t necessarily want to stuff her with a very high NSC feed.
The Otter Co-op feeds tend to be lower NSC, and not so reliant on grains. Their high-fat feed is pellets primarily made of alfalfa meal and vegetable oil. Not something I need for my horse! But seems to work well for others. And not going to trigger laminitis at higher volumes.
I emailed HI Pro and received their analysis of Step 8. I think it actually looks pretty good. The NSC is 13% with fat of 20%. The main ingredients are canola oil, canola meal, alfalfa, beet pulp, rice bran and wheat.
