The barn I moved to feeds 1-2 scoops of hay stretcher AM/PM with two flakes of hay a day. No grain. The reason they have me is that when horses are out in the wild, all they eat is grass, Ect. That in grain it’s manufactured and its not natural for them, that it causes ulcers, and it’s not that easily digested. Also hay stretcher is better for them because its easily digested, gives muscle mass, and you can ride them after they eat. Now ALL the horses at the barn look amazing, muscle mass, beautiful coats. I’m just looking on more opinions and information on this to know if I should put my horse on hay stretcher or grain.
You should not make a change to what your horse is used to and does well on just because someone else says you should.
For what it’s worth, NOTHING we do with horses is natural. Our very relationship with them isn’t natural. So I get kind of tired of people feeding me this crock-and-bull story of “but that’s not NATURAL.” None of it is.
With that said, I do think the more changes you can make to your horse’s keeping so that it mirrors what his body would do normally is great. I do it for my own horse. She gets no grain, she can be kept barefoot and she is, she is turned out as much as possible (at least 10 hours a day, but she also likes her stall, especially in the summer) and she gets as much hay as she can eat.
But not all horses can subsist on just hay stretcher, hay and water. Horses in high level of work need more calories, and they just won’t get enough from that diet alone. I’m very much of the “If it’s not broken, don’t fix it” school. If your horse is doing fine on what he gets for food, his coat is shiny and he’s in good spirits, why change it because someone else told you to?
Grain by itself does not cause ulcers, and actually horses “in the wild” eat much more than grass: shrubs, twigs, roots…any vegetative material they can chew is eaten. “The wild” isn’t all lush pasture. Feeding hay also does not “give muscle mass”…movement and correct work “gives muscle mass”. Otherwise every horse eating hay (which is what hay pellets are made of right?) would be nice and fit. It’s statements like that that make me not take this barn seriously.
Large amounts of grain not fed over multiple portions throughout the day coupled with minimal forage, all fed to a horse who stays locked in a stall all day? THAT might cause ulcers.
You do what is right by your horse, even if it means bucking the trend at whatever barn you’re at.
While I agree with just about every word ^^^ there is also the proof-is-in-the-pudding factor. If the horses look great, perhaps its worth trusting their theory. Horses don’t lie. Perhaps the hay is magnificent, wouldn’t be terribly unusual. Use your best judgement.
Hay stretcher is process as well as therefore not natural either! 
If it is Blue Seal Hay Stretcher it says right on the bag that it should not fed as the only feed. It would be smarter to feed all hay and just a supplement. Even though the horses look fine, they may not be getting what they need.
In general, I agree with what your barn manager is telling you. Most (many?) horses don’t actually need grains, and grains aren’t that good for them.
By grains I mean corn and oats – actual grains – not generic pellets.
[QUOTE=Sunny1991;7557427]
The barn I moved to feeds 1-2 scoops of hay stretcher AM/PM with two flakes of hay a day. No grain. The reason they have me is that when horses are out in the wild, all they eat is grass, Ect. That in grain it’s manufactured and its not natural for them, that it causes ulcers, and it’s not that easily digested. Also hay stretcher is better for them because its easily digested, gives muscle mass, and you can ride them after they eat. Now ALL the horses at the barn look amazing, muscle mass, beautiful coats. I’m just looking on more opinions and information on this to know if I should put my horse on hay stretcher or grain.[/QUOTE]
Threads like this irritate me (no not you OP!!) - just that barn owners/managers think this way. A horse kept in a stall with some turnout is not the same as a horse who lives out in the wild. We’ve domesticated them and therefore need to take that into account. Hay stretcher contains NO vitamins/minerals, etc. which grain does and if fed the recommended amount then they get what they need daily (though most people don’t feed the recommended amount). Hay stretcher does not give them muscle mass. Most people feed it if their hay supply is lacking, a horse needs to gain some weight, they need to get extra water into them (it makes a great mash), etc. Grain can cause ulcers but so can’t stall confinement, lack of turnout, stress, showing, etc. - in other words ulcers can be caused by just about anything.
People typically feed grain for the calories - to keep weight on a horse (for example the horse may be considered a “hard keeper” who can’t maintain their ideal weight on hay alone). If a horse doesn’t need the calories but they need to get the necessary vitamins/minerals they typically get a ration balancer or a vitamin/mineral supplement.
Are the horses at your barn on pasture for turnout? If so, how many hours are they out and is it decent pasture that can sustain them? If not I’d be worried about them only getting two flakes a day (unless the flakes are huge/weigh a lot). What was your horse eating before you moved him/her? If it was working then I wouldn’t change it just because the barn has a different way of thinking (one that I don’t agree with).
Anyways… Welcome to COTH :)!
I’ve been using Haystretcher (Blueseal) for years in addition to grain. It is mostly dehydrated alfalfa mixed in with a lot of grain hulls and middlings (non-nutritional) to help keep the weight on and stimulate the gut to keep moving. It is a less expensive alternative to alfalfa pellets. There is no grain in it, nor dehydrated beet pulp, nor a lot of vitamins or minerals either. It is a forage extender and is added to the forage side of your horse’s equation, not the grain side. If it didn’t have dehydrated alfalfa in it, it would be considered floor sweepings. It is low in NSC (10-11 percent) and it is also less expensive than most of the mid-high priced grains on the market. The ingredients are mixed and then heat treated to form into large pellets, so horses in the wild wouldn’t be involved with this product. I think you are getting some blarney from the BO.
Barns use it to extend their hay supply and keep weight on their horses. This way, they can feed less hay on a daily basis. I use it in a 50:50 mix to help keep the weight on a draft horse. I also feed a top shelf grain and in the winter he gets a 45 pound bale of hay each day. I have a friend who uses it during the winter along with grain for her previously foundered horse to keep the weight on instead of haying heavily with a variable hay supply.
Knowing the product as I do, I would not do this with my horses. If you end up going this route, consider adding in a good comprehensive vitamin/mineral supplement which contains biotin for good hoof health. That way you’ll be covering all the bases. Here is the link to the PDF file on the product so you can see what it is your BO wants to feed your horse, and see how it stacks up to what you are already feeding.
http://blueseal.com/product/?id=143
ETA: If the BO has experienced a lot of ulcer problems in using grain in her barn, then either she was overfeeding it, or she isn’t feeding enough hay to keep the acids in the stomach from splashing up against the upper part of the stomach wall where there is no mucus lining to protect it against acid splash. Hence the Haystretcher. Two flakes am/pm works for some horses. For others it is not enough forage and they get ulcers.
I’d be worried that my horse wasn’t getting adequate vitamins and minerals. HS should be supplemented with something else, as others have pointed out.
I use it in addition to grain for my older horse who can’t eat enough hay.
[QUOTE=LookmaNohands;7557560]
If it is Blue Seal Hay Stretcher it says right on the bag that it should not fed as the only feed. It would be smarter to feed all hay and just a supplement. Even though the horses look fine, they may not be getting what they need.[/QUOTE]
Well, it’s not the only feed - the horses are also getting “real” hay… yes they may be lacking in some vitamins and minerals from getting “just hay” but prior to the time of ration balancers coming out, which really wasn’t that many years ago, I fed only hay and my horses were always in great shape with a nice shiny coat and excellent weight.
OP - if the horses are getting hay and hay stretcher pellets and they look to be in good condition in terms of weight and skin/hair, I wouldn’t worry too much. They may be lacking in vitamins minerals on such a diet, which can be figured out by testing the hay. If you are concerned with the lack of vitamins and minerals, you can always give a daily supplement or feed a ration balancer.
ETA: If the BO has experienced a lot of ulcer problems in using grain in her barn, then either she was overfeeding it, or she isn’t feeding enough hay to keep the acids in the stomach from splashing up against the upper part of the stomach wall where there is no mucus lining to protect it against acid splash. Hence the Haystretcher. Two flakes am/pm works for some horses. For others it is not enough forage and they get ulcers.
Or it was high in starch, which can also be an issue.
I agree with not feeding grain unless the additional calories are necessary for keeping the horse in good condition. Sounds like in this case, the horses don’t need those calories since they ARE in good condition on just hay and hay stretcher pellets. They likely don’t even need the hay stretcher pellets, just hay.
get a good vitamin and mineral supplement designed for horses on a hay and grass only diet and it will probably be fine.
My biggest problem is that “2 flakes of hay a day” is not nearly enough if they are your average small square flakes. They’d better be some kind of giant western flakes for that to be adequate. I would ask for my horse to get more hay and less stretcher. I don’t believe in replacing hay with hay stretcher unless it is something like a senior horse with no teeth that can’t eat regular hay.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7558245]
get a good vitamin and mineral supplement designed for horses on a hay and grass only diet and it will probably be fine.
My biggest problem is that “2 flakes of hay a day” is not nearly enough if they are your average small square flakes. They’d better be some kind of giant western flakes for that to be adequate. I would ask for my horse to get more hay and less stretcher. I don’t believe in replacing hay with hay stretcher unless it is something like a senior horse with no teeth that can’t eat regular hay.[/QUOTE]
^ Yes. Just re-read and see that they are only getting two flakes a day. If they are not also on pasture, and those flakes are from the small bales, she probably has ulcer problems from lack of forage rather than feeding grain of any kind.
Depends on if they are turned out on pasture or have something like a roundbale outside for more forage. Really depending on the clientele it may also be keeping them happy, are these mostly pleasure pets that don’t work a ton? A lot of owners think their horse should get SOMETHING extra even when they don’t need it so using hay pellets makes them happy the horse is getting a “meal” plus it gives a way to get any supplements they may feed into the horse. Yes it is a nice idea that we should balance every last vit/min but look at the horse in front of you, if they have a good coat, good weight and good feet they really aren’t lacking anything for them!
I’m trying to figure out what a former student is feeding her geriatric horse.
She told me the mare is getting, among other things, 2 qts of hay stretcher (I believe Blue Seal) each meal.
Anyone have a weigh to volume conversion for the stuff?
I have a detailed spreadsheet on the composition of the stuff, but it’s useless without the weight.
(I know, I can always make her weigh it, but I’m trying to get this done now, and she’s at work, or at least away from email.)
http://blueseal.com/products/horse/
The pounds per qt conversion is listed here
ETA it used to be there, but now I see it is not…sorry!
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7629723]
I’m trying to figure out what a former student is feeding her geriatric horse.
She told me the mare is getting, among other things, 2 qts of hay stretcher (I believe Blue Seal) each meal.
Anyone have a weigh to volume conversion for the stuff?
I have a detailed spreadsheet on the composition of the stuff, but it’s useless without the weight.
(I know, I can always make her weigh it, but I’m trying to get this done now, and she’s at work, or at least away from email.)[/QUOTE]
Ghazzu, it’s been quite a number of years since I’ve fed it, but I recall one quart Hay Stretcher weighing approximately one pound.
I do find it slightly comical that the OP’s barn owner/manager feels that processed oat and soybean hulls are more “natural” for a horse to eat than “grain.” Although I am also in the, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” camp. If they are in good health on it, that’s great.
Some advantages of feeding solely hay stretcher would be that it’s high fiber and generally friendly to the horses’ gastrointestinal tracts, albeit higher in starch than regular hay or hay pellets. One disadvantage, already mentioned, is that the diet may be sorely lacking vitamins/minerals depending on forage quality. Also, hay stretcher may not provide enough calories or digestible protein for horses in heavy work.
1.45 lbs per quart for Blue Seal hay stretcher (their pelleted feed are all about that). 
Thanks!
FWIW, I’m actually surprised at how well my gelding actually keeps weight with hay stretcher vs. grain. I always thought he was somewhat of a hard keeper.
When I was leasing him 3 years ago he was on beet pulp and I think dry or wet cob (along with hay) and he looked awful.
After I bought him, I put him on Triple Crown and that was decent, but eventually made the switch to hay stretcher because he didn’t really need the grain at that point, and he looks great! Even in the winter. He only gets 1 cup a day, as it’s mostly so he can ingest his powder supplement.
