Head tossing - just a phase?!

[leheath]

I have a green, young horse I just started jumping in March. She is going through a phase of testing her boundaries, and I am hoping this is part of that phase and will eventually disappear. However, I thought I would see if anyone has ideas that might help or just experience to reassure me that it is a phase they grow out of!

She is a naturally high headed horse, and appears to enjoy throwing her head (high enough her ears not infrequently touch my face, even when I am not leaning forward!:eek:)…a lot! She does this somewhat on the lunge line (mostly when excited) as well as under saddle.

I have tried several bits and none make a significant difference. Saddle was very recently professionally fitted and she regularly sees a bodyworker who has not identified any problems. Teeth also recently checked and floated.

I am using a running martingale which helps a little, but only to the extent of keeping her ears out of my nose.

It is significantly worse if the jumps are less challenging but it is bad enough, especially on approach to a jump, that I am concerned she won’t see the jump and fall/trip over it so I am not comfortable really increasing the complexity or height too much in case of error on either of our parts. It occurs in both trot and canter, but often worse in canter.

My coach and I are just focusing on riding forward and ignoring (as much as possible) the head tossing. A brief discussion of draw reins has taken place, but I (and coach) am very reluctant to go there with a young horse.

I am a quiet rider with generally soft, quiet hands so neither my coach nor I think it is a response to rough hands on my part.

She does some of the head tossing when we work on dressage, but it is definitely getting better there. Not as much progress in the jumping…maybe just time?

TIA

[FatDinah]

Are you sure she is ready to jump if you have inconsistent contact when doing dressage/flat work? I’d work on getting her steadier on the flat before jumping. Sometimes with youngsters, you go one step forward, two steps back.

If you do keep jumping, switch to a standing martingale so you are not using the bit as you are with a running martingale. Keep it loose but enough to keep her head out of your face.

I am thinking too that if you are worried about her approach you are overriding her and sending mixed signals that fluster her. I took a clinic with an excellent 4 star rider and she advised a couple of people on younger horses not to try so hard to find the distance just go with the horse. And if the horse got itself in trouble, let it, she said, so it would learn.

Good luck! Youngsters just sometimes do take time and mistakes and then click. I applaud the decision not to go to draw reins. Now you might try a rubber mouth Tom Thumb Pelham to see if a little curb can help.

[Laurierace]

Does she toss her head when she is turned out? Stop and rub her face on her legs?

[mychestnutvalentine]

Are you sure you haven’t got my greenie I bought in January ???

I have a 6 year old OTTB that will break my nose with her head if I let her. Recently, I trailered up to my awesome trainer who I bought the mare from. The head tossing ceased with my trainer up there. Apparently, my boundaries for this mare are too wide and I need to be a little tougher with what I let her get away with. I tried the bit thing. I’m currently riding her in an aurgian loose ring Kk snaffle. Before was a happy mouth baucher.

Medical and fitness reasons aside, if there’s nothing that’s bothering her than remember that you set the boundaries and she’s not allowed to knock you out when riding. Reward her when she’s doing what you want. I’ve seen a big difference with my mare, who had me conned for awhile that she just couldn’t go around without head tossing and I’m such a softie that I believed her !!

[subk]

Be aware that head tossing is sometimes diagnosed as a veterinary mental condition; it is not always a behavioral issue.

[vineyridge]

Have her eyes checked. Horse vision is very different from human vision, although they do have both nearsigntedness and farsightedness. Your horse might not be able to see the jump unless the head is raised (or tossed up). In big stick show jumping, riders release the head, which then jerks upwards, so the horse actually can see the jump.

[tripships]

Veterinary stuff is always good to rule out. I had a horse that was a ‘seasonal’ head tosser, little bitty bugs would get in his nostrils, and he would toss his head. Sometimes he would stand up. Took us a little while to figure it out, because they never seemed to bug anyone else. Got one of those little nose nets, head tossing stopped immediately.

I have an occasional head tosser now, happens when I do not have consistent rein contact and he falls behind my leg. But that problem is fixable.

[leheath]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8700545]
Does she toss her head when she is turned out? Stop and rub her face on her legs?[/QUOTE]

I don’t think so, although I board so don’t see her often in turnout. She certainly wasn’t today either before or after I rode. I have never allowed her to rub her face on her legs while bridled but she sure is super itchy when I take the bridle off!

[leheath]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8701091]
Have her eyes checked. Horse vision is very different from human vision, although they do have both nearsigntedness and farsightedness. Your horse might not be able to see the jump unless the head is raised (or tossed up). In big stick show jumping, riders release the head, which then jerks upwards, so the horse actually can see the jump.[/QUOTE]

I did have her eyes checked at her spring vet check so I don’t think eyesight problems are the cause. It is interesting your comment about how they visualize jumps. She is doing it on the entire approach, so I don’t think that it is, but I might try lunging her over a few jumps just to see what she does.

[leheath]

@FatDinah;8700314

…
If you do keep jumping, switch to a standing martingale so you are not using the bit as you are with a running martingale. Keep it loose but enough to keep her head out of your face.

I am thinking too that if you are worried about her approach you are overriding her and sending mixed signals that fluster her. I took a clinic with an excellent 4 star rider and she advised a couple of people on younger horses not to try so hard to find the distance just go with the horse. And if the horse got itself in trouble, let it, she said, so it would learn.

My coach suggested a standing martingale too, but I am very nervous about them on green horses as there is no release so if they go up, they can flip over.

I actually don’t worry about the approach or distance too much. When she is not flinging her head, she has a naturally very good eye and good rhythm so distances are difficult for her. In general, I agree with the 4 star rider saying let them make mistakes and learn from them…I think I just worry too much about the mistake being too big and one or both of us getting injured, but maybe I shouldn’t worry so much over jumps that fall down…

[leheath]

[QUOTE=tripships;8701115]
Veterinary stuff is always good to rule out. I had a horse that was a ‘seasonal’ head tosser, little bitty bugs would get in his nostrils, and he would toss his head. Sometimes he would stand up. Took us a little while to figure it out, because they never seemed to bug anyone else. Got one of those little nose nets, head tossing stopped immediately.

I have an occasional head tosser now, happens when I do not have consistent rein contact and he falls behind my leg. But that problem is fixable. :)[/QUOTE]

I was thinking about a nose net after reading some other threads about them. Which ones do you use? The ones I liked were nearly $70, which seems an expensive experiment!

[leheath]

[QUOTE=mychestnutvalentine;8700804]
Are you sure you haven’t got my greenie I bought in January ???

I have a 6 year old OTTB that will break my nose with her head if I let her. Recently, I trailered up to my awesome trainer who I bought the mare from. The head tossing ceased with my trainer up there. Apparently, my boundaries for this mare are too wide and I need to be a little tougher with what I let her get away with. I tried the bit thing. I’m currently riding her in an aurgian loose ring Kk snaffle. Before was a happy mouth baucher.

Medical and fitness reasons aside, if there’s nothing that’s bothering her than remember that you set the boundaries and she’s not allowed to knock you out when riding. Reward her when she’s doing what you want. I’ve seen a big difference with my mare, who had me conned for awhile that she just couldn’t go around without head tossing and I’m such a softie that I believed her !![/QUOTE]

LOL, I completely understand this! I have recently had to get a little more strict about boundaries in other areas of our riding - she was telling me things were “difficult”, so I backed off…which really wasn’t the right answer as she basically conned me into backing off every time things were more difficult so we made no progress on anything (actually regressed!).

However, I am wondering how you went about setting boundaries for your mare with regards to the head tossing? How did you let her know it was not OK? What did your trainer do differently from you while riding?

I will say, we had a lovely dressage ride today with very little head tossing of any kind. I rewarded her with a slightly shorter ride (partly because we got the work I wanted done faster because we weren’t spending as much time wrestling!) and a nice little trail ride after! If only I knew why today was better/different!!!??

[wildfox]

[QUOTE=leheath;8701266]
I was thinking about a nose net after reading some other threads about them. Which ones do you use? The ones I liked were nearly $70, which seems an expensive experiment![/QUOTE]

You can buy a pair of large pantyhose, cut off the foot part and place that over your horse’s muzzle, attaching/wrapping it around the noseband. It’s not best for a long term solution but it will tell you pretty quick whether your horse will be helped by a nose net.

[jelly8bean]

It does sound like headshakers to me… test with the panty hose like wildfox described and if it works then I suggest going with the $70 nose net. They really helped my gelding who was a mild headshaker.

[Inclined]

If the panty hose works, you might consider this. I’ve found it to work well, and it’s a whole lot cheaper: http://www.jefferspet.com/products/quiet-ride-nose-net-black-size-small?sku=QLAY&gclid=Cj0KEQjws_m6BRCv37WbtNmJs-IBEiQAWKKt0J47imlgaRlPGP5YGK2biRrtKgI4TSTmh1uZNzgIu24aArK88P8HAQ

Also, not a cheap solution, but if she’s itchy after the ride, some horses respond well to a Micklem type bridle setup. (If it’s the trigeminal nerve that’s bothering her in the traditional bridle.)

[hb4hb]

As the owner of a 7 year old gelding that developed pretty severe head shaking last year, I’d be very curious to see some video of what your mare is doing exactly. He escalated quickly from subtle symptoms to being highly spooky and un-rideable for several months while we figured out how to treat it.

The symptoms can look very much like a behavioral issue, but are really a response to pain (think severe migraines). What helped for me during the diagnosis was to keep a journal of various symptoms and the time of day and conditions surrounding them (temp, humidity, wind).

We had success with a few forms of treatment/equipment to get him comfortable (and the nose net made him MUCH worse).

Feel free to PM me for more information as I know HS has been discussed quite a bit on here.

[ChasseurSauteur]

Just went through something similar with my guy, it led to much frustration and not a few tears on my part - we got his teeth done which helped marginally, but adding a nose net stopped the behaviour basically instantly. He still shakes a little when is is especially dusty, but the difference is night and day. I’m in Canada and ordered from Bahr Saddlery - the net was $30 (CAD) shipped and arrived the next day. It’s made by Aerborn. NB, the hairnet over the nose trick did not work for my guy.

[FitToBeTied]

First check for the medical possibilities. When I got mu most recent horse he was a very severe head tosser. I started him out on a standing martingale and used that for about two years. I originally tried a running but he hated it. After two years I went back to the running and used that for a year.

After three years the head toss was gone. Now he goes quietly on the bit and we can do a decent first level dressage test.

[Robby_Johnson]

[QUOTE=leheath;8701253]
I don’t think so, although I board so don’t see her often in turnout. She certainly wasn’t today either before or after I rode. I have never allowed her to rub her face on her legs while bridled but she sure is super itchy when I take the bridle off![/QUOTE]

Does your bridle fit her correctly?

I would definitely have the vet look at her and rule out anything physical (such as photic headshaking or allergies) first.

Good luck!

[leheath]

I already ride her in a correctly fitted Micklem bridle, which she definitely prefers to “normal” bridles.

I will try the pantyhose nose net idea next time I ride and I will also try keeping a diary to see if I can connect the good and bad days to something.

If I can find someone to video some of the head tossing, I will do so - most of the time I ride alone or in a lesson when my coach is busy coaching rather than trying to video!

Thanks for the link to the nose net on Bahr’s website - much more reasonably priced…if only I could get their checkout process to work for me…will try again later.