Headshaking: making sense of it all?

Thought I would start a new thread.

From looking at videos I see several “types” of head shaking. The horizontal shake, like something in their ears, and the vertical shake, like flicking their nose both seem to be rideable, or at least the horse is willing to keep working. I have also seen the snakey, Arab-type head twirling in the air shake, maybe less rideable. Then there is the “insect up the nose” violent shake with striking as they try to wipe their nose on foreleg; these don’t appear rideable and the horse seems frantic or distracted enough to stop working. Do folks have all types or just a couple?

For those that have HS and feel the nose net, or antihistamines, or supplement/diet change has resulted in improvement, I am curious as to the type and severity of the head shake to begin with, and if the remedy worked two years in a row – and success wasn’t just because it was seasonal? Or maybe the remedy works and is used every season?

I am struggling with trying to make it logical (I know, Nobel prize if I succeed!d). I have looked at all the resource pages. It seems to me that if sunlight is the trigger, shouldn’t head shake occur year round and NOT be seasonal? Simply bright light induced?

And if seasonal, doesn’t that imply the remedy be more allergen and bug prevention: antihistamines, avoiding legume hays, fly masks, nutritional supplements?

I am guessing that the nose net appears to work because regardless of trigger (sunlight or seasonal allergies or seasonal bugs), the additional contact on the muzzle stifles the sneeze/reaction, so to speak.

I am hoping my guy’s larger than normal corpora nigra might be the cause, but that seems to be the rare case. In the meantime, what a frustrating syndrome! For me and him! I am hoping my new guy’s trail riding days aren’t over in sunny SoCal, :frowning:

I have had 2 HSers, both were triggered by bugs or stuff hitting their muzzles (light rain). One has remained pretty static with hers, not getting any worse and often not even HSing. The other would go from crazy HSing to the point I considered putting her down, to not HSing at all. I inadvertently found out that it was ulcers causing her HSing when I had to keep her in 24/7 and feed her hay 24/7 for medical reasons. She totally quit HSing. I was able to test the theory when I trailered her and she did not eat hay and came home HSing and I gave her 4 days of GG, quit HSing. Never scoped her, but that was pretty conclusive IMO and I never had any issues with her again. Unfortunately I lost her in 2016 at 16 to colic.

I rode both with long nose fly bonnets never tried the nose net.

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My mare has it pretty mildly, and is (mostly) controlled with an anti-inflammatory supplement. (Duralactin) Hers is definitely allergy related, and she essentially gets all the classic signs of “hay fever” plus swollen lymph nodes and the head shaking. She does NOT do well with lots of cedar and milkweed, but I haven’t needed to gotten her allergy tested for a list of things. Vit E supplementation also keeps exaggerated allergy issues down, like hives.

Fly masks help keep down any exaggerated responses to bugs, and I make sure she can come in to a run-in/stall out of the sun when she needs to. She will usually hide out for a few hours in the middle of the day, and head back out late afternoon or evening after dinner.

I have a horse in for training that HS mildly. She is in her third month under saddle and I put a nose net on her at the beginning of the month and it stopped all headshaking. She shakes her head straight up and down.
She did not do it on the ground or on the longe, only when I started her under saddle It was never anything I couldn’t ride through, just annoying. It was definitely worse when the sun was out.
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Mine was definitely triggered by rain/ humidity/ stuff touching his nose but also seemed to be allergic to something environmental. He was the terrible itch type. Interestingly he did it pretty much only under saddle and only on the flat (standing around/ hacking/ dressage not galloping or jumping). He was probably 80 or 90 percent better with the nosenet. He developed it at 12 (although in retrospect had some iffy days the year before) and was consistently seasonal until he died at 17 of colic. He was definitely an odd and high maintenance horse in a lot of ways (super girthy, had a random sinus infection, blocked tear ducts, weird respiratory allergy to mild, etc on top of colic issues, so who knows.

My horse was ridden regularly without issue until last summer, when we had an accident together and he suddenly wasn’t doing anything for a few months (can be a trigger). He was mostly fine in November but occasionally tossed his head up and down at the walk and the trot. I didn’t know what it was. It wasn’t all the time. Never side to side. He was OK in the winter but it got bad enough in the spring that I inquired about it here. He shook his head enough up and down to get one rein over his ear, and he’d stop to rub his nose on his foreleg. He wasn’t really rideable for dressage schooling. Again, it was just up and down, and very sudden, like someone pricked his nose with a pin. He would press his nostrils into the fence when I groomed, which gave me a clue. In the spring, he also tossed his head when I groomed, so I thought it was related to allergies. He has a mild fly allergy making him itchy in the summer. I had my vet out and free-longed him in our round pen and she said “yep, that’s HSS”. At the time, he was doing it in the pasture occasionally, people say. I think he didn’t do it all the time because the grass touched his nose. He’s out 24/7 in his own pasture.

He tossed his head while grooming for maybe 2-3 weeks, then stopped. At this time, he hit his nose once pretty hard on the arena rail where I tack up so I knew it was an unexpected reaction to something he felt. I continued with the panty hose and then tried to ride between the panty hose and nose net. He seemed fine for about 15 minutes and then the HS started again. Up and down and very sudden, like someone just pricked him in the nose. I got off and put on the nose net. I’m not sure if it is seasonal and not even sure if I’ll try him again without the nose net. It works for him, he’s used to it, I carry on. I don’t see him vertically tossing his head in the pasture anymore, even when I catch him and he walks, trots or canters up to me (exercise can be a trigger). He also doesn’t do it when grooming anymore, so maybe it is seasonal. I’ll carry on with the nose net because it is easier for me and he’s used to it and I can show in it.

I’ll likely attach a nose net to his halter when it flares up so he’s not experiencing misfiring when i groom (he loooooooves to be groomed and I know his head tossing while being groomed was so out of character for him).

Seemingly, I’m in the lucky percentage where a nose-net stimulates the nasal trigeminal nerve endings and it stops HS. The nose net only works for horses with nasal trigeminal triggers. A nose net doesn’t work for every horse. Or even most horses. I think Cashel makes riding specific eye nets for horses who are triggered by sunlight. It is finer that the regular fly masks so horses can see yet blocks UV and might be worth trying. That works for some horses, but not most.

His pasture was recently analyzed for nutrient content and his diet was also analyzed. He has been above the recommended daily allowance for horses on pretty much all things, and isn’t really deficient in anything. Diet hasn’t been linked to HSS as far as I know. Age, sex, sudden let-down from work, and other mysterious correlations have been, although no one knows why.

My horse just started this a bit last fall and then this spring, so I can’t comment how well it will all work for 2 years.

I am a professional Ph.D. scientist and approached it with exactly the same questions you are. The triggers HAVE to be identifiable!!! I mean, why on earth is “let down” a trigger for a horse out 24/7? It doesn’t make physiological sense!!! Seemingly, the condition is more of a syndrome with likely many factors contributing to it. That there are so many “fixes” and so many “non-responders” to these fixes point to the fact that it is a syndrome. Unfortunately, there’s relatively little research done on the syndrome-I looked into the scientific literature. It’s really frustrating, but trial and error with your horse is going to be your best friend. Let us know how it goes!

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I had many of the same questions when I owned a photic headsaker. Her symptoms came on suddenly one spring when she was around 15. One day she was absolutely fine and the next, unrideable. Her head shaking was of the more “bug up the nose” type with the facial rubbing. She also would pull down and flick/flip her hear upwards. HS started every April and lasted until mid Fall. We tried cyproheptadine, other antihistamines, ulcer treatment, feed changes, nose nets and those did not help. Magnesium and vitamin E did lessen the symptoms a little. Keeping her out of the sun ( early morning turnout) and keeping a flymask on her to block the sun did alleviate most of her symptoms enough to keep her comfortable and happy but not rideable. I did try to ride her with a Cashel mask made for riding, but it was innefective. It was a heartbreaking experience and I really feel for horses who are misdiagnosed or not diagnosed and their behavior is blamed on “attitude” instead of discomfort and therefore they are punished.

The onset of my mare’s HS was one year after being treated for Lyme. I often wonder if the Lyme triggered it.

Thanks for the feedback. I have the vet coming this morning, so I will see what she knows about our local area (SoCal). I stopped at the tack store and was surprised to see plenty of nose net inventory in stock! Must be more common than I thought.

No turnout here, no pasture, and probably less insects than most of you run into. I bought him in October and at and that barn he would have some horizontal head shake which we thought was something in his ear. I moved him in February to a new barn that backs up to Santa Monica Mountains and thus a bit more pollen/insects, and his sensitivity to gnats following his face causing him to toss his head became obvious – they bug me, too, so I didn’t think “HS,” just an aversion to the bugs. Had his ears checked under sedation – nothing there!

Still ridable incidents although annoying, until the “bee in nose” reaction a couple days ago – for that I felt lucky to stay on as he was frantic and forgot I was even aboard. And I wonder if that is going to happen more frequently as we progress through season. In fact, that is a question? Does it get progressively worse as the season wears on?

I tried nose net for the first time yesterday – he was fine with it on, had a couple gnat-induced shakes, but nothing serious.

There is a FB page that suggest UCDavis protocol for double-dosing Equimax 3x two weeks apart (don’t quote me on this!) has been successful.

J-Lu, I am not a Phd, but a science person and very logical and thus this type of thing tweaks me…lol. For those “HS” who are not trigeminal, but are a result of an enlarged CN, or a tumor, or a tooth issue – I wish I knew what type of HS they experienced. No doubt, once cured, they don’t follow up on HS threads.

And I am sure there is something to the horizontal vs vertical shake…

Rambling, off to vet!

Well, vet confirms he has a cystic corpora nigra … but also thinks his HS is not definitive enough to be a classic HS. She agrees the incident I described that happened is “classic HS” but since it only happened once, she would reserve judgement. She said it is tough to wait it out, but she would want to see more instances and have it on video before she would call it HS.

Might be tough to get that since it seems to happen only when ridden. I will work on it.

But my next conversation will be with the vet hospital that does cystic CN deflation – they usually are prompted to do that due to spookiness and having HS disappear is a side effect. I don’t know if they would do it

Huh. Did your vet recommend a course of action for he CCN? Please update us on what the vet hospital says and how any procedure goes!

Finding an equine opthamologist is harder than I thought it would be! Still trying to track one down to determine if they would consider the procedure. The three equine hospitals I have used before don’t do it… sigh.

Here is his eyeball though! Can’t say I know for sure what is what. The CN is the big round ball(s) and I think the cyst is the white part (or is that a reflection)? But maybe it is the size of the round ball that makes it cystic?

When I google for images, the shape of the CN appears to be quite varied.

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drifter eye crop.jpg

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Unfortunately I am a member this club! I have one—-of course it’s my younger, more talented and sweet mare. The more you try to apply logic to this condition, the more frustrated you get. Just like others, it was sudden onset (I can remember the day) with no symptoms prior to that day. Suddenly flicking her head like a person with.a facial tic and rubbing her muzzle on anything in reach.

I have had 2 trips to the university to do diagnostics on everything. Radiographs of head, checked TMJ, teeth, eyes, allergy testing, standing scope, dynamic scope, ears, etc. Every test comes out disappointingly normal. Which is when they diagnose them as a trigeminal mediated headshaker. I do think there is an allergic component for her. She gets swollen, runny eyes and seems to be worse when the pollen counts are high. We put her on cyproheptadine, and that worked for about 8 months , then stopped working. She also responds well to Dex, although it doesn’t stop the HS, it does seem to make her much more comfortable for breathing, and can be ridden without any frantic moments. A nose net doesn’t seem to help her. It doesn’t seem to be photic—the only trigger I can seem to find that seems related after journaling this for ages) is high pollen or dusty arenas ( she is much better in outdoor arenas). She did test as allergic to dust mites. Not sure how I would ever eliminate that from her environment.

I will say that I have been able to ride her most of the time, but definitely have had days I had to get off, or my trainer thought it might be too dangerous to ride her. What is supremely frustrating is on days she isn’t HS, she is an absolute joy to ride. Her temperament is amazing, so I keep trying to figure out a way to manage this. Right now my vet and I are experimenting with a low dose of steroids +antihistamines. Also she is on mag restore and melatonin. Wears a fly mask for turnout. Seems to be happier being ridden in the Cashel quiet ride mask. Does better when she is working round and connected, with lots of things to do. Worse when hacking on a loose rein at a walk. Which is sad because I like to do that as a reward at the end of a ride (or as my entire ride some days). Good luck and keep us posted on any progress you make. We need a support network for owners of HS!

Great picture, BlueDrifter! Could you maybe consult an equine opthamologist on how problematic your horse’s CN might be and what your options are, even if they are out of state? The vet I mentioned did her opthamology training at Tufts, and they have several large animal opthamology vets on staff. Maybe you can set up a consultation with one of them or someone from another school with an equine opthamology program? Maybe they’d be able to advise you on your options? At least you have a diagnosis! Step one! Fantastic!!

Yay! A diagnosis and one hospital who will do the ablation in San Diego area… only a 150 mile haul, but going through LA and South Bay curve any time of the day is a traffic nightmare… did I say I hate the 405? I have calls into two more clinics that are closer.

No promise that it relieves head-shaking, but advised that the procedure is simple and they would recommend doing it because they said his is “exceptionally large.” Given it’s size and that it swings around, I, and they, are surprised he is not spookier. He really isn’t, but very head shy on that side. (That said, he shied last week on that side for the first time.)

And I have my anatomy down now. The round ball is the cyst, and it is hanging like a pendulum from top of iris, where the other three balls are “normal.” The white is just a camera reflection.

@slp2 oh jeeze. what a nightmare for you. I hate not having a reason…

If my guy has another incident as he did, it would be one of those unrideable days. Are you seeing seasonality, and able to ride more in fall/winter? Hacking is all I do, so I should try riding in a frame and seeing if it lessens reactions. I had been riding in a western headstall (no cavesson) when it was happening more – I switched to micklem bridle that has a bit of a drop-type noseband, and it seemed better, then to an english bridle with the nose net. Both of those seem better than the western, and I wondered if it was pressure on the nose after all. I have a lot more journaling to do.

Just as an aside, he is stalled and I changed his bedding to Cedarest… until it began to give me a tickle/cough. I just pulled most of it out and back to shavings. My throat feels better, I wonder if he does too?

What great news!!! That’s awesome! Best of luck to you and your horse and keep us updated with his progress!!!

My 25 year old Paint horse was having progressively worse problems for about 2 years. I spent lots of time researching and trying supplements and gear that helped others but nothing seemed to be very effective. I took him to UC Davis Vet school last summer and he started a clinical trial for an herbal supplement. Once he was on the right dosage for a week the headshaking stopped. We have had no headshaking since September despite having his usual triggers. It costs about $30 a month (way less than anything else I tried). I hadn’t realized the severity of how frustrated he was until it stopped. He’s back to his old personality.

i signed a non-disclosure agreement so I can’t say what it is but Dr Shara Sheldon is in charge of the study. They were looking for more subjects last I heard.
I hope this helps someone. It is such a frustrating condition.

i signed a non-disclosure agreement so I can’t say what it is but Dr Shara Sheldon is in charge of the study. They were looking for more subjects last I heard.
I hope this helps someone. It is such a frustrating condition.

For what it’s worth, anecdotally, I had two incidences with my mare one summer in SoCal - both when she was in direct mid-summer sunlight (one time was within seconds of walking out into the sun after being fine in the shade), where she threw herself back like she had a bee up her nose. I tried keeping her out of the sun when I was with her, and I never saw her do it again (we later moved to a less sunny part of the country, so less of an issue, I think). So, could have been nothing, could have been something. Was probably nothing. I figured I wouldn’t make an issue of it unless it became more frequent.

Also, just checking that you asked Alamo Pintado if they do the procedure you’re looking for? Surely more convenient to drive north than south from where you are!