Heart issues and kitties

[CHT]

Meet our newest kitty (11 of 11), Greyson (or Grayson)

Unfortunately, the little guy has a grade 3 heart murmur, found when he was neutered. Unfortunately I noticed too, that he tends to pant when he follows me on walks or if he comes out to harass me while teaching. I have only noticed him pant outside when it is 20+ Celcius out, and never inside (our arena is still only 17 Celcius). I try to keep him quiet, but he declines being carried and also declines staying home.

We have only had him about 5 weeks. He just showed up one day, and despite the best efforts of our dog and other cats, he kept coming back. I picked up a trap day 2, but he made it in the house day 3, and day 4 he was neutered and vaccinated. Unfortunately they didn’t tell us about the heart murmur (they know our wishes and would vaccinate regardless), and we only found out when he went back for boosters and I mentioned the panting…but it was just a tech appointment.

Is it worth getting an ultrasound? Any ideas? He is a very sweet dude. Likely under a year. He nurses on his forearms and has worked hard to fit in.

[chestnutmarebeware]

An ultrasound sounds like a big expense that wouldn’t yield any realistic solutions.

Has your vet indicated that surgery would be a solution? And would you be willing to pay thousands of dollars for heart surgery if it could be fixed?

[JB]

There are medications for heart murmurs, but you need to know which type, because the med for each type will make the other type worse

Or you can monitor it for now and see if it improves (or worsens). Maybe re-check in a couple months?

[beowulf]

@chestnutmarebeware

An ultrasound sounds like a big expense that wouldn’t yield any realistic solutions.

I had an older cat that got diagnosed with a murmur at routine check up. Both tech and vet confirmed it and told me I needed to book with a cardiologist ASAP because it was severe. Booked with a cardiologist and he called and said he couldn’t find a single thing wrong with her heart. I was pretty unhappy all around with how this was handled because it was about ~$2k in vet fees, consultation, and diagnostics – but I suppose it beat the alternative of having an actual murmur.

I later learned from another vet that it’s really common for cats to have “murmurs” (or really, arrhythmias) in clinical settings, because they are stressed and anxious in a new environment - and some sedations will cause heart irregularities, too. That was an expensive lesson for me, at a time where I didn’t really have extraneous money to spend.

I’m surprised to hear a murmur that severe was missed in the first appointment but diagnosed at the second. I’d hardly call a tech’s opinion a confirmed diagnosis - their competence level ranges all over the board. Some are truly brilliant, and others are not.

Whether or not it’s worth an ultrasound depends on your budget and gut.

I don’t think it’s bizarre a cat is panting if it’s very hot outside. I would continue to monitor him and go from there - you have only had him 5 weeks. Once you have a good handle on what is normal for him you could reassess and see if medications and ultrasound are necessary.

By the way, Greyson is gorgeous. There is something about a solid grey cat that melts my heart.

[OzarksRider]

Do you have any idea how old this cat is? A younger cat would be more likely to have a congenital cardiomyopathy, but in an older cat hyperthyroidism can cause heart issues, although he doesn’t look like a typical hyperthyroid cat in the pictures. IIWM, I would talk to the vet and ask what they think is going on, prognosis, additional recommended tests, and treatment options. Then you can decide how much you want to pursue this or just let him live the best life he can for as long as he can.

[JB]

@beowulf

I later learned from another vet that it’s really common for cats to have “murmurs” (or really, arrhythmias) in clinical settings, because they are stressed and anxious in a new environment

I wondered about that. We had 2 kitties who developed murmurs a bit later in life, grade 2 I think. One might have gotten to a 3, I don’t remember, but at that point he was 17 or so. The other one went back and forth between 1 and 2 each yearly visit (because I only do yearly rabies not the 3yr). Both those kitties always got super stressed going to the vet, so I (and my vet) wondered if it was simply the stress of things. The one we just lost last week (CKD) was bad enough at 17 that my vet did give a referral to a cardio, but it would have been almost a 2 hour car ride, and, well, STRESS, so we opted to just monitor. I do think he really did have an honest issue, because once we started fluids for his CKD, we couldn’t push much past 100mL or he’d have trouble absorbing it, would breathe harder, etc.

[MunchingonHay]

He is super handsome. I hope you figure out his heart issue. I would agree that the stress of the car ride, the vet, etc could have caused some irregular sounds. A second opinion would be cheaper than an ultrasound like what OzarksRider stated upthread.

[shiloh]

A murmur at his age is not unusual. A grade 3 is not awful but not great either. But - as others have pointed out - stress can make things worse. I think you can’t go wrong with just monitoring him for now. My Ollie had a murmur and sky high bp, so I went to Internal Medicine Vet and they wanted $1200 to do a cardiac work up. No. I already knew what I was dealing with so we kept him on his amlodipine and he did fine. It was the cancer in his mouth that got him in the end.

[CHT]

The little guy is likely under a year old. He acts like a kitten and is gangly. He is smaller than our other cats, but doesn’t have the proportions of a kitten - he may just be a small cat I guess. He also has very clean teeth.

@beowulf The murmur was found during the neuter (first appointment) but they only TOLD me during the second appointment when they reread his file after I mentioned the panting. They couldn’t really hear the murmur on the second appointment because he wouldn’t stop purring.

Today is quite hot and no panting even though he was trying to get me trampled by running out of long grass at the horses I was leading, so maybe I am worrying too early.

[colorfan]

My vet told me that a heart murmur in a young cat is not unusual, most of them grow out of it.
Since it was a vet tech that told you I think I would wait a couple months and then have him checked again.
He looks like he has a very dense coat so no doubt he is feeling the heat more than some cats would.
He is lovely!

[JB]

Yep, definitely monitor and see, If he’s not due for vaccinations again for a year, maybe take him in 6 months to see what’s what or , if he’s behaving very normally and is healthy, just wait for the next vaccination appt (but I probably would check in a year, not 3)

[sascha]

@CHT

Is it worth getting an ultrasound? Any ideas?

Maybe?
Ideas - one. I have a pretty oceanic-sounding* heart murmur kitty who is kept completely under control with B12 shots - .1cc once a week for a few months and then roughly monthly unless I notice him doing anything weird in which case we go back to weekly for a while.

It is CHEAP! The most expensive part is a cheapy stethoscope to monitor the murmur.

It’s not going to fix everything, but if you luck out, it may be all you need to give your kitty a long life. Mine has been on this regime for likely more than 5 years.

If your vet looks at you like you’re nuts, there should be some studies to be found somewhere - my vet didn’t invent this treatment by herself. Alternatively, you can always pull my nonsense when I want to try something that’s ‘off-label’ and look pleadingly while asking if there’s any HARM in trying it versus (whatever - not being able to afford US + traditional drug therapy, not wanting to put the cat through the stress of US, etc.)

*oceanic-sounding BEFORE B12 treatment. It has sounded pretty much normal since the first couple months of treatment.

[Hilary]

We had a kitty who was found to have a murmur when he was a young whippersnapper. We chose not to go to specialists, and just let him live his best cat life which he did for 7 more years. He died unexpectedly of MODS and I have to think the murmur might have shortened his lifespan but he lived every minute of it to the fullest and I do not regret our decision to keep him out of the vet’s office. The murmur was never noted later in other routine vet visits so it did not get worse.

[CHT]

it is ridiculously hot right now and no panting observed, but I have also been teaching less (because of the heat) and staying in the barn/indoor arena more so? Waiting and seeing seems like a good approach for now.

Hopefully he was just being an over excited young muffin and I am being overly worried.

Also, I can’t believe we now have 11 cats. I used to think the oranges were the trouble makers (we have four), but now that we have three grey cats I change my opinion…it’s the grey cats that are trouble!

[sascha]

@CHT

Hopefully he was just being an over excited young muffin and I am being overly worried

Rightfully worried. Cats don’t pant like dogs do. Panting is a sign of heart issues.

I opted to take the B12 flyer because I didn’t want to my young guy through the upset and my wallet through the wringer of diagnosis. I would do it again. And if it didn’t work, then I’d weigh my options. I’ve had 2 drop dead from enlarged hearts (and another who probably did - no necropsy and I didn’t see it happen) over 30+ years. Not the worst way to go for the cat, but it’s a hell of a shock to the humans.

[JB]

Panting may be a sign of heart issues, but cats can, and do, pant if it’s hot enough for them. We have a few cats who are mostly outside during the day, they come in when they want, always in at night. On the really hot and humid days, 1 in particular will pant a little. We’ve had him about 11 years, and no heart issues have ever been found on his annual exams. The 2 who did have documented murmurs, never panted, though 1 was only a “let’s go check the perimeter and come back in” kitty LOL

[CHT]

Little dude was panting again today, and it really wasn’t that hot, but it was humid. I think its the humidity that does him in, but none of the other cats are panting…even the fat ones.

@sascha I am going to look into the B12 thing.

I wish the muffin would let me carry/hold him. He wants to be right with me while teaching, so either I have to stand still near some shade for him, or he runs after me everywhere and pants, albeit just for short moments. I have never seen him pant indoors though.

[4horses]

I don’t think an ultrasound would be that expensive to take a look at his heart. Why don’t you find out what it will cost to get him checked out and then decide if it’s worth it? He sounds like a very nice cat and if medication can help that is what I would do.

[CHT]

You’re right, I should find out. I guess it’s more if there is anything to be done depending on what they find. He’s a great little terror.

[OzarksRider]

It’s possible that the panting and heart murmur are two different issues. Like others have said, the murmur may be benign and he may grow out of it. The panting may be caused by allergies or asthma, and it may get better this winter.

One of my cats used to pant when he was younger. A steroid shot would clear it up for a couple of weeks, but it kept recurring so we (vet and I) put him on a Flovent inhaler. I treated him with the inhaler for several years and I noticed that his panting disappeared and his coughing episodes gradually became less frequent. He’s been completely off the inhaler since last winter, and I haven’t seen any coughing or panting at all this summer.

Another possibility to consider is heart worms, because these can cause respiratory symptoms.

You could ask your vet to try a steroid injection to see if that clears up the panting. If it does, you could put Grayson on a Flovent inhaler.