Heat tape on pipe that's installed flush against wall

[Sansena]

Does anyone have a suggestion for how to wrap this pipe? It’s a frost-free hydrant that has little metal bands-- for lack of a better word-- keeping it flush against a wooden stall wall. So wrapping a heat tape all the way around, like the stripe on an old fashioned barber shop pole, isn’t feasible. I wonder if there’s something like a heating pad I could install against that wall and hydrant…

Oh, and do heat tapes lose efficacy if they’re run off extension cords?

I’m at a new barn. The people are lovely. The horse care is very good. But I shudder to think of how they fared during previous winters here in CT.

Thanks guys.

[Christa_P]

Does the hydrant freeze? A properly installed and working frost free hydrant doesn’t need heat tape. If it does freeze, then it needs repair or replacement, not heat tape.

[gumtree]

A picture speaks a 1000 words,

But as Christa P said if it was installed correctly it shouldn’t need any.

The shut off valve on a frost free hydrant is at the bottom of the pipe, the “stand pipe”. It is a spring loaded plunger right above where the water supply line attaches. It HAS to be installed below the areas “frost line” the level below grade that does not freeze. When the hydrant is turned off the valve at the bottom closes and opens a drain hole at the bottom so the water in the stand pipe drains out and into the ground.

Two things can cause it to freeze up. Especially when constant ambient temps have been well below freezing. If installed correctly by setting the bottom in gravel and adding more gravel so it is above the drain hole before back filling with dirt it will drain quickly. If this part is not done correctly it can and does drain slowly. If the ambient temps have been in the single digits or there abouts. The slow draining water can and does freeze in the stand pipe before it drains out. If this is the case you will not be able to pull up the handle because of the frozen water in the stand pipe.

The other reason is because it was not installed deep enough below the frost line. If the handle can be pulled up but no water most likely the water supply line has a frozen clot somewhere in the line. Usually at the fitting that water supply line is attached to at the bottom of the hydrant.

Wrapping heat tape around the exposed stand pipe may or may not thaw a frozen stand pipe. Depends on where it is freezing up. It usually freezes up a few inches below grade/ground level. Heat tape may not heat the pipe deep enough to melt the freeze clot. Using an electric heat gun and or propane torch maybe the only solution. Or pouring a type of “anti-freeze” into the pipe. I forget the name of the stuff.

IMO and experience having had to dig out and or spend a lot of time unfreezing a frozen hydrant is to wrap the bottom of the hydrant and up the stand pipe with heat tape when being installed, just in case we get a long string of really cold weather.

As to your situation you should be able to off the straps and pull the pipe away from the wall enough to wrap it. As to the use of an extension cord. Make sure to use a 12 gauge cord that is just long enough to plug the tape into the outlet without a lot of excess cord. The cord’s ends/plugs should be designed for high current draw. In other words do not use a 50’ cord for a 20’ run. Quality heat tapes have a thermostat so it can be left plugged in. So the pipe will be warm when it is used in the mornings/days after a hard freeze. Plugging it in after the pipe has frozen may not do much if anything. But better than nothing I suppose.

[Sansena]

Gumtree… You are a godsend. Thank you so much for the education on frost - free hydrants! You’ve answered questions I’ve had for years.

Problem here is it’s a barn with lots of kids; folks who don’t think ahead. So they’ll attach the hose, use it to water the barn (furthest one some 30’ from the hydrant), then just shut off the hydrant, leaving all the water in the hose to back up in the hydrant and freeze. I’ve installed quick connect pieces at the fork coming off the hydrant, and a portion of the barn is fed by one ‘Y’, with individual stall waterers, the rest via hose. It’s going to be a miracle that the hose is shut off at the hydrant, much less disconnected with the open ends left OPEN, and put into a large muck tub to catch the draining water.

But you are correct. I took a peek at the metal bands holding it to the wall and it’s a simple Phillips head screw holding them there. I’ll bring my cordless drill next day or two and attach a heat tape with the correct extension cord.

I love this barn, but as is always the case in a new boarding facility, there are adjustments. Iv’e been asking for the heat tape since late October. I keep hearing “Oh yea… I think it’s in the loft somewhere”. And that’s been the end of it.

I’m off to Lowe’s later to make sure the horse furthest away from the hydrant (of course, mine) has water.

On another note: Has anyone heard of heated hoses? IIRC, they’re about $150 for the length I need and I’m happy to donate it to the barn, but I’m not sure if it taints the water at all or is even practical for our applications.

[trubandloki]

Another good solution is to get rid of the hose all together for the winter and provide a few buckets for easy water carrying to all the stalls. Then no one is going to make the hydrant freeze up or leave the hose full of water.

I think most people that leave the hose hooked to the hydrant truly do not know why that is an issue.

[danacat]

@trubandloki

I think most people that leave the hose hooked to the hydrant truly do not know why that is an issue.

…until they learn the hard way by leaving hose atttached, and the next morning have to feed & water a barn full of horses because they are the BO’s emergency contact.

[gumtree]

@Sansena

Gumtree… You are a godsend. Thank you so much for the education on frost - free hydrants! You’ve answered questions I’ve had for years.

Problem here is it’s a barn with lots of kids; folks who don’t think ahead. So they’ll attach the hose, use it to water the barn (furthest one some 30’ from the hydrant), then just shut off the hydrant, leaving all the water in the hose to back up in the hydrant and freeze. I’ve installed quick connect pieces at the fork coming off the hydrant, and a portion of the barn is fed by one ‘Y’, with individual stall waterers, the rest via hose. It’s going to be a miracle that the hose is shut off at the hydrant, much less disconnected with the open ends left OPEN, and put into a large muck tub to catch the draining water.

But you are correct. I took a peek at the metal bands holding it to the wall and it’s a simple Phillips head screw holding them there. I’ll bring my cordless drill next day or two and attach a heat tape with the correct extension cord.

I love this barn, but as is always the case in a new boarding facility, there are adjustments. Iv’e been asking for the heat tape since late October. I keep hearing “Oh yea… I think it’s in the loft somewhere”. And that’s been the end of it.

I’m off to Lowe’s later to make sure the horse furthest away from the hydrant (of course, mine) has water.

On another note: Has anyone heard of heated hoses? IIRC, they’re about $150 for the length I need and I’m happy to donate it to the barn, but I’m not sure if it taints the water at all or is even practical for our applications.

I don’t know about that, lol but thank you.

You left out a very important piece of information. Leaving the hose hooked up. Doing this doesn’t allow the water in the stand pipe to drain even when the handle is closed. Even if the the hydrant is shut off and the hose shut off is left open there is a very good chance all of the water will not drain out. You can’t use quick connects unless you take out the back flow plug that most have in them. You can’t use a “fork” or a multi hose connector on the hydrant unless one of the valves is left open after closing the hydrant. Personally I take those off in freezing weather just in case someone forgets to close the hydrant and open the valves. The ones who don’t do this are not the ones who have to spend hours at times getting things thawed out.

I’ve never used those electric hoses. But there have been threads on them.

[Simkie]

Huh. I’ve never seen a need for heat tape, in states far colder than this, including large unheated boarding barns with multiple workers and people and students who access the spigot and hoses. This seems like a really complicated solution to a pretty easy problem?

And just how wise is it to have heat tape sandwiched between the riser pipe and a wood wall? One short and the barn goes up…

But thank you for reminding me to disconnect my hose! I think this is the first freezing night this winter

[Foggy_Clouds]

A barn in town just burned to the ground due to a heat tape. Luckily no fatalities.

[Sansena]

Well, that cuts it. I think I’ll just make the hose disappear soon.

[trubandloki]

Have you simply explained why the hose has to be disconnected to everyone? That is probably the best solution, then the other boarders will move forward with a bit of knowledge.
Lots of people do not understand how a yard hydrant works. Print out a picture of how it works (easy enough to find online) and then explain that the hose (and all the surplus fittings) prevent the riser from draining all the way.

If they still do not get it then yes, hide the hose.

[moving_to_dc]

Get yourself some quick connect ends for the hose - the ones from Lowe’s DO NOT have the backflow preventer - you NEED to be sure they are clear, like Gumtree points out. Makes it super quick and easy, even with gloves on, to hook the hose up and disconnect it. You still have to either drain the hose or store it somewhere warm, but at least hooking it up is easier. Get the BRASS connectors, not the plastic ones.

Also make sure your frost free hydrant doesn’t have a backflow preventer attached to it. I have seen LOTS of barns that use those, and wonder why the hydrant freezes and they need heat tape. Some backflow preventers can be tricky to spot if you aren’t accustomed to looking for one.

We have used the heated hoses for winter RV camping. They work… But they are somewhat of a PITA. Big and bulky, get stiff in the cold, have to stay plugged in to stay ice-free. If unplugged and frozen, it takes a bit to thaw them out…

I dislike filling buckets from just the hydrant - it splashes everywhere. I slap Flexilla 3’ leader hoses on the hydrants, it gives enough “drop” to reach a bucket without splashing, but not so much to lay on the ground, hold water, and freeze. Flexillas stay flexible even in the coldest weather.