Agree.
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Sounds like a smart business decision for someone in the business of training and selling horses. And it is very much a business at her level.
Let’s be honest here…in the CDI context an “amateur” is not some backyard rider on their OTTB who struggles to make it to a show. If you don’t like how the FEI defines amateur in this context then complain to them. To be perfectly frank, I think having an amateur division at this level is silly and that introducing it was a bad move. However it does exist and if riders want to take advantage of its existence to secure themselves better placings, who cares. Isn’t that why you’re upset? Because you think having a pro compete against you will hurt your chances of getting a better colour ribbon? It’s not like placings mean anything in dressage anyway - only the scores matter.
Ride your horse, have a great show and stop worrying about what other riders are doing.
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Hey, now. It’s 5-o-clock somewhere.
Thanks to the other real Amateurs out there for the support.
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Honestly I think it’s sad when the likes or dislikes of people decide about show entrees… there are rules which can be changed.
I for my part don’t like that judges are sponsored by AAs participating in these CDIs.
I think it is a scary thought that likes of competing participants provoke decisions…
So the CDIs for AA are a big swamp anyhow. If you can’t accept it don’t participate…
Interested… what is real AA for you?? Maybe you lost just a bit the connection to reality???
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I am offended that some people keep trying to market this division as if it had anything to do with USEF amateur status. Which has happened all over, like “look we did something for you!” Even the articles announcing it had that tone. It’s ridiculous.
I have no problem with an inexperienced pro riding in this division. This is a division for stepping into international competition when not ranked internationally. It seems a smart place to start, which is how it’s intended and why it is defined as it is.
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Okay then.
IMO she is a Pro & apparently also a Shamateur.
Is she that greedy for points?
Guess no guac & margaritas for me :no:
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Lol. I’m fat, middle-aged, broke, ride a draft cross and struggle to hit low 60s at Second Level. Not sure how much more “real” an amateur I could be. :lol:
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I get the OP point.
But also get that “the market” Is relentless in it’s pressure on EVERYONE to prove that they are good enough/worth something/can produce results, Etc. it is really an issue of the total culture and how we assign value. We demand the highest standards of everyone else, but want a soft landing pad for ourselves.
it is a no-win scenario.
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It doesn’t matter if she is a pro according to the USEF definition. If she does not have an FEI ranking then she is an “amateur” for the purposes of competing in the Amateur CDI division. End of story.
Is it a stupid way to define amateur? IMO yes, and the division should be scrapped or called something else. But worth implying someone is cheating or somehow gaming the system by competing in a division for which they are eligible? Hardly.
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Exactly.
Anyone entering a CDI is a completely different stratosphere than most of us USEF amateurs. And the definition for this division has ZERO to do with the USEF definition. Which would be fine if it weren’t marketed as if there were some similarity in the definitions. It was an asinine choice to name it Amateur when that wasn’t its intent, and it is pandering to try to pretend there’s any connection there when there isn’t.
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And anyone who doesn’t want to compete under these rules, then there are FEI classes at national shows where you can compete with amateurs as defined under USEF rules.
I think this definition is nuts, but until the rule is changed, I don’t see the sense in slamming pros who avail themselves of the opportunity. I believe the AM classes are less expensive than the 1*
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Sounds like the definition of amateur vs pro for this class is strictly in association with competitive riding, rather than training, coaching, sales or anything else. Which, I think, is a valid classification, although different than the one many are used to. Some (a lot, really) people manage to earn a living doing horse things without themselves doing much in the way of competition (or themselves being particularly good, competitive riders). I can imagine that there are also people that have enough time, money, and other resources that they are able to attain FEI ranking without earning any money doing horse things, but don’t know that for a fact. Honestly, it seems a more appropriate and fair classification than one based on income source in a lot of ways, particularly if the income sources that are disqualifying include activities that are not competitive riding.
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From her website: Heidi Degele has successfully competed in Germany under the training of Hubertus Schmidt. She has earned her USDF Bronze, Silver and Gold medals. She is known to have the ability to ride “anything” and “bring out the best in every horse she rides.” She has trained several horses from the very beginning to successful FEI horses. She has scored over 70% in Germany Internationally. She trains her horses with the Classical and Systematical methods she has learned and mastered while in Germany, proven successful over several generations.
Just because she CAN do this division doesn’t mean she SHOULD. That is my point…
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Take it up with FEI if it means that much to you.
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I don’t know this woman, or anything about her “business,” whatever that may be. But the quote above just means she had the resources to go train with a top professional, has been able to focus on her riding for years, and has had some show ring success.
Selling horses - as long as she owns them - does not make her a professional even under USEF rules. Amateurs can and do sell their own horses with no impact to their competitive status. If she trains clients, sells for others, etc, that is a different matter with respect to USEF rules, but not to the FEI, as has been explained several times on this thread. I am truly not sure what your beef is here. That she has more horses/opportunities to train than you do? And somehow this means she should not compete in this class - even though you acknowledge she is perfectly eligible to do so???
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My friend is an Olympian (2012). He is at present an invited to shows as an amateur, because he’s not ranked. His income is solely derived from competing and selling horses. My boss, same “job”, also an invited amateur.
professional =/= professional for purposes of FEI competition status
USEF professional =/= professional for the purposes of FEI competition status
I’m sure it’s confusing from the outside, but if it really bothers you, just show at national level shows.
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Alice Tarjan also sells horses that she owns and competes as an amateur in USEF shows. It is not that unusual.
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