I am new here but not new to dressage. I have trained, gone to clinics and competed. I have watched on the sidelines as one horse abuse scandal after another rolls trough the dressage world and nothing changes. This isn’t only a dressage problem all horse sports have there abuse issues. I use to event as well until the death count got too high. Anyway, my point is that the only people that can stop the abuse is us, the adult amateur community. We are the money, the entrance fees, the training fees, the board bills, the tack, horse equipment, the horses that drive this industry. Yes - the Olympic level dressage is run by billionaires but we are everything else. You want to stop Helgstrand and all the other riders that buy from him, train with him or support him - don’t follow dressage riders on instagram, Facebook, tic tock etc. Don’t buy the brands that sponsor them, don’t go to clinics, quite your federations and clubs. Spend your money on learning dressage so that your horse, no matter what breed or how fancy ( or not) a mover he is gets a better rider which is all that matters. Throw your cranks and flash nosebands away and try a normal cavesson. Let your horse tell you how good a job you are doing. Good dressage is hard because the onus is on the rider. It can improve any horse, no matter what breed or grade. As an aside, acceptance of a horse behind the vertical, especially young horses has allowed Helgstrand and Parra to thrive. Their use of all the crap they put on horses on the lunge is the truth of this. My point is that we can stop this by learning for the benefit of our horses and stopping funding the abuse.
Cheers
Hi and welcome. I agree with many of your points regarding horse welfare but, as we’ve litigated in several other threads here, the rot starts at the head. The corporate funders and donors as well as the big horse buyers simply don’t give a damn how many of us can fit two fingers under a cavesson.
Edit: this doesn’t mean we should sit quietly and do nothing! Rather, our outcry should not let those who can make a real impact off the hook.
Maybe with enough pressure from us, the ruling bodies will get real about scoring and penalties but we haven’t seen that (yet).
And then there are the lawsuits coming… couple verbrands are now facing legal threats for attempting to blacklist abusers.
They would probably wouldn’t care if 90% of the ammie market disappeared as long as that top 10% kept buying.
Think of yacht racing, where a handful of elites control the game. That’s what they want, a playground with enough public fascination to keep it competitive, but not a true sport where anyone with talent can rise.
If it scores it will win. If it wins, it will breed. That’s where the money is. Fix that financial incentive because nobody will be shamed into doing the right thing.
Nitpick…Olympics are not the pinnacle of horse sport and function primarily as a showcase for the general public.
“Do your part by not using plastic straws and we can all stop global warming!” I’m not BP. I’m not Exxon-Mobil. I would LOVE if simply using my reusable straw would stop the climate crisis.
Obviously I don’t condone abuse and don’t support Helgstrand/Parra/the like, but posts like this really do chafe my butt cheeks sometimes. My contribution to the sport of dressage will be to continue to ride dressage, and show dressage, in the best possible way I know how. I promise to try to be the best rider I can be for my horse and put my horse’s welfare before my own competitive goals. How does me, a responsible owner and rider, leaving the sport help anyone? And I am going to keep using my crank noseband and flash bridles-- because they are tools and do no harm when used appropriately.
There are already two threads discussing this subject. Perhaps @Moderator_1 can merge this onto the Helgstrand Parra thread.
I have to admit that part of me agrees with you about them not caring about the ammie market but, for instance, a big Helgstrand buyer has an equestrian clothing brand. What if we refused to buy that clothing or saddle or home goods or vitamins or whatever they are selling - and every single one of them is selling something. It is not just the top 10% that are buying the tickets to Devon or the Olympics or the World Cup shows or the World Championships. Sure they get the box seats but what about the bleachers? What if the “trainers” in the United States stopped buying trips to Europe because their client with cash would be better off on a quarter horse than a four year old that has been ridden for two years already and does not understand contact. Yes - I know big wishlist but horses are luxury items not necessary to life. If you can vote with your pocketbook you have more of a chance than asking the FEI to do anything.
Cheers
Because tickets to Devon support more than just Helgstrand? Some people really do make their living off of horses and “voting with my pocketbook” on the things you suggest hurts the little guys as well. That’s not fair.
Yep - I get it and I agree about the plastic straws. I don’t think you are BP or Exxon and I’m sorry I irritated your butt cheeks but if you continue to support a system whose supposed “High Performance Riders” purchase their horses from Helgstrand or his subsidiaries you are part of the problem. I am trying to think of a way that I as a dressage rider can stop the abuse and griping about it on the internet doesn’t help. Do you have a better idea that doesn’t include the judges changing because I am old enough to have watched some of our judges ride and train. Also if you think that a crank and a flash noseband are appropriate tools then I’m sorry but we aren’t on the same page.
Cheers
Why would stopping showing or watching bad upper level dressage hurt the little guy? If you have a trainer that treats you and your horse with respect that doesn’t stop you from continuing to ride with them.
Cheers
I just think you’re preaching to the wrong choir. CotH is not full of people buying imported horses from Europe and showing all winter in Florida. I spend most of my excess horse money on lessons/training with my coach, who breeds her own nice horses and is a very kind and fair trainer. She needs “big” shows like Devon to promote her business.
I would love to see changes in the judges box. I know many judges personally who are fair and would never treat a horse the way we’re seeing now, and I also know that judges do unfairly reward nice horses with tension or bad training.
In the other thread, one of the things that we’ve identified is that gaits being part of every score likely has an impact. Changing that would go a long way.
I think change is already coming in amateur-land. Though I’m not huge on a lot of what I see on the internet (e.g. there are a lot of very carefully orchestrated videos showing “kind training” that are misleading) I think people are questioning things that were “must haves” or “must dos”. I wish it didn’t come with as much woo woo as we’re seeing, but that may self-correct - pendulum has to swing a bit before it settles.
Horse people can no longer fix this. The general public has to fix it via their outrage in overwhelming numbers. The governing bodies must be terrified and very concerned seeing no way out for them to take actual effective action.
No one has to woo woo kind training. It’s already out there. And it’s real.
The woo? Not all of it is real. Lots of it is complete BS and made by people to sell courses.
However, there’s a lot of science based information I can 100% get behind.
My mentor taught us how to ethically train. He didn’t own horses, have a barn or sell them. His woo was pure intentioned.
That’s nice. I wasn’t suggesting that the two were tightly coupled. Some people though veer into the woo when they insist that traditional tack like bridles and bits are all inherently evil.
My horses have all been ethically trained as well. I can ride them all (excepting one) bareback and bridleless and all that jazz too, and have done so since I was 12 years old.
What I was actually talking about the woo that is prevalent on the internet that seems to go with the “kinder gentler training” - it isn’t always present, but it is there. Loads of homeopathics, unproven medications, and energy work like Celeste Lazarus which is woo.
We went through all of this with the natural horsemanship phenomenon about 20 years ago and it seems to have returned in dressage format.
Bits are not evil, whips for guidance are not evil, saddles are not evil, and longing a horse isn’t inherently bad. You can use all of these tools ethically and kindly, and you can compete that way too.
Always the same problem. There’s a balance point between woo and cruelty. That’s what we should be aiming for.
Bingo!
Agreed but I have no problem with people that just want to brush their horses and run them through obstacle courses or only ride bareback with no bridle and a rope just so long as they don’t yell at me for riding with saddle and bridle ( also I have a very devious pony that could make these humans his slave if given the chance.) The ODG’s knew what they were doing and that’s what the original rules in dressage were meant to protect. I hope Knight’s Mom is not correct in that dressage needs the general public to fix this but it might be the case.
I agree. And a “crank” isn’t bad, it just sounds bad. Properly positioned and not optimally tightened, it is fine.
I wish I were wrong.
