Helgstrand, Parra, blue tongues - the list just keeps growing

[Alterration]

Here is the article that led me to go search for the study. https://thehorse.com/120993/rollkur-facts-fiction-and-horse-health-implications/

This isn’t that study, but another useful one that references it - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0168159108002876

It’s older - so I’m not sure what else has been done in this area. It is interesting that they note that all “head positions” that are found in dressage impede breathing. But they just note it, which is less than useful.

[Ghazzu]

Send me a PM with an email address and I’ll send the full article along.

[Knights_Mom]

@sascha

@Rnichols

I actually feel quite confident saying nobody means “anybody who rides the horse BTV for even a fraction of a second is a horse abuser”

Oh, they are out there.

The thing that makes me absolutely batshizzle as a proponent of the great muscling that long, deep, and round can make is that those eejits don’t realize that the angle between face and neck changes as the horse raises or lowers the neck. A horse being ridden very deep and long (low and long in the neck) with its snout behind the vertical may, in fact, have a more open throatlatch than one that is very up in the neck and slightly in front of the vertical.

Gee gosh.

There is FDO forward down out which is fine

LDR low deep round which is not fine

Long & Low fine

There is no long deep round. It’s physically impossible.

In the past my horse also would curl. We took the time to work him out of it. If it happens for a moment now we can fix it.

And I’m willing to bet that most people here can tell the difference between inadvertent, momentary BTV or being held BTV.

So everyone can relax their knickers.

[Knights_Mom]

It occurs to me that if the “real” horsemen stood up against animal cruelty the arm chair quarterbacks wouldn’t have to. And we wouldn’t be in the predicament we’re in as an industry.

[Alterration]

Thanks! Will send in a second!

[xQHDQ]

Agree completely. The saying about knowing abuse when you see it is true on a very basic level. The majority of people in horses (amateurs and pros) are trying their best to be good to their horses. But, we’ve ALL done things not quite in line with good training (who hasn’t pulled on the outside rein when they should have just held???). That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to be better and I think we do.
As riders/owners we need to listen to our trainers when they say we need to take a step back or that it’s going to take more time with our horses.
Trainers need to avoid taking short cuts.
Judges need to reward correct riding, not be wowed by a fancy front end, and point out to riders when there is an issue.
USEF/USDF/FEI/etc need to enforce the rules and pay attention when its members come to them with a violation.
(am I forgetting anyone?)

[Helicon]

I am not sure if COTH allows this, but I am hoping they will.

I started a petition to the USEF to change its mission to allow it to take action against horse abusers regardless of where the abuse happens, so we don’t have another Parra situation.

Here is the link (you do not have to donate Change.org who is hosting the petition). Lets make a difference for the horses!

Sign the Petition

[Mondo]

@Helicon

I started a petition to the USEF to change its mission to allow it to take action against horse abusers regardless of where the abuse happens, so we don’t have another Parra situation.

I think this is commendable. However, USEF does not and cannot have jurisdiction on private property. Period. Anyone could weaponize that. I fear false reports. There would need to be an avalanche of evidence before USEF could legally get involved. So while your heart is in the right place, I think we need to find other ways to eliminate abuse in horse sport.

[Helicon]

Mondo - thank you for the feedback. What would the other ways be?

[Cowgirl]

I signed your petition, but I think we can insist that they actually follow their rules that already exist!!! This includes judging. There is currently a lot of corruption in this sport–Parra had a retired FEI judge in his pocket who was charged with Olympic selection. In his pocket. Two USEF officials said in interviews that they witnessed his abuse, but they didn’t actually cause anything to happen to address it. Can we ask WHY? Too many things have happened recently to suggest that the organization has looked the other way so much that it can no longer spot inappropriate public behavior (e.g. Prudent clinic statements that were actually published unedited by USEF). I suggest that we could also propose rule changes that has consequences for officials not reporting abuse. But mostly we need them to step up on their mission of horse welfare: define what abuse is, train as to what it looks like, support officials in reporting it. Judges need to penalize tension, btv, lack of continuity between front end and hind end, open mouths, excessive salivation (indicating horse cannot swallow), police the nosebands (other countries actually now use a guage), excessive whipping, excessive spurring, etc., and stop rewarding advanced outlines at the lower levels. Realize that the organization is very much committed to maintaining the status quo despite all of this negative press.

[Helicon]

Thank you Cowgirl these are all excellent points you are making. I think defining abuse is necessary as is recognizing the symptoms of it. I think the USEF needs to step up because we need horsemen guiding the way, and there have to be consequences that count, or it will just be more lip service.

The general public does not have the discernment. For example, on the extreme sides there is the jury that acquitted Parra after what happened with William, and then there are the Peta people who think all riding is abuse.

[Mondo]

@Helicon

Mondo - thank you for the feedback. What would the other ways be?

If I knew, I’d make suggestions. I think Cowgirl is right. Make them enforce the rules we already have is a good start. Consequences for officials who turn a blind eye to abuse. Make judges penalize tense horses, horizontal curb bits, etc.

[Helicon]

According to this article by Nancy Jaffer the USEF does indeed seem to be considering a rule change. By signing my petition you are showing support for this move. Wishing that the status quo was working better will not bring about much needed changes.

USEF seeking to punish horse abuse outside of competition - Nancy Jaffer -...

[Cowgirl]

Yes, but this does not address what is happening IN competition, it does not define abuse, it does not create an educational program and does not allow them to make random checks of property. It only allows them to take action if they have actual proof of abuse happening outside of showgrounds. But how many years did it take for someone to be brave enough to gather that evidence?

[sascha]

As much as we’d all like to light some serious large crates of firecrackers under our federations, I think we have to remain realistic about how long it’s going to take

From the article (bolding mine):

The rule, which could go into effect Dec. 1 if passed at the USEF’s mid-year meeting, defines horse abuse as any action or omission that is likely to cause pain or unnecessary discomfort to a horse.

While terrible and vague, it’s a start on defining abuse. At least they didn’t leave that part totally blank.

@Cowgirl

But how many years did it take for someone to be brave enough to gather that evidence?

Too many but perhaps that will speed up once some really solid regulations and definitions are in place*. I mean, the whole Helgstrand thing went very quickly once the right reporter got hold of the tip.

I’m super interested to see how judging and the presentation of horses changes over the next few years. Will we see a return to less unnatural movement and perhaps with that increased relaxation?

*I realize that I’m probably far more optimistic than I should be, but I hope that hoping for some improvement is not completely out of place

[Ghazzu]

@Cowgirl

does not allow them to make random checks of property.

Nobody, repeat nobody, is going to be allowed to make “random checks of property”.
That’s insane.

[fivestrideline]

Even actual law enforcement can’t do that. Not legally, anyway.

[Cowgirl]

They can when a welfare issue is reported, but generally it is only for starving animals, lack of water, long curling hooves, etc., and is usually too late when they get there.

[Ghazzu]

@Cowgirl

They can when a welfare issue is reported,

Correct.
Law enforcement–with a warrant.
Not the NGB for a sport.

[Cowgirl]

Yes, so what really can they do?