Because I personally associate the curb with a port. If it falls into a larger generalized definition then so be it.
Any leverage bit that uses a chain can have different severity depending on the chain tightness.
You can ride a curb on a looser rein and maintain contact. Contact is not defined by straightness of the rein.
Using your logic then bosals are wrong too. You don’t ride a bosal on a tight straight rein either yet there is contact.
Yes I’m familiar.
Contact that moves the bit in the mouth, cramming the port into the roof of the horses mouth, is always inappropriate for a curb.
A.L.W.A.Y.S.
If you find yourself needing that type of “contact”, you go back to a snaffle.
And - you don’t get to define a curb however you want. It has a definition.
It does.
It fits quite readily into the category of curb bits.
A port is not a necessary feature of this class of hardware.
And I don’t know what the devil you’re talking about wrt bosals, because I never mentioned them.
I personally am not a fan of the curb at all. I use snaffles with a peanut. My old gymkhana horse raced in a snaffle or a mechanical hackamore.
The one good thing about WD is that you can contact them and talk to them about it. I shall do so today to see what they think.
When I was young a would ride trainers horse in a spade. The ultimate of stay off his face-ness yet there was contact.
Nobody has hands for a spade nowadays.
I used a bosal as an example of WD equipment that also doesn’t have the straight rein conventional contact.
I know a few people who are qualified.
Ok I stand corrected. Out of 452,000 equestrians 376 are qualified to use a spade.
And - before anyone mentions that double bridles have contact on a curb…
They shouldn’t all the time, but I’m sure many riders do… and
WDAA allowable shank length is 8.5" (including purchase). Conventional dressage is ~4" (including purchase). BIG ASS DIFFERENCE THERE.
This is half my issue with the “classical” dressage people. Being in the shape without direct connection between the hand and bit is called posturing and it is not correctly being on the bit.
I disagree. A hallmark of an exceptionally trained dressage horse is to be able to drop the snaffle rein, ride off the seat and use the curb only when necessary.
Same with western.
You should be able to release the rein forward for a moment (three to four strides) to demonstrate self-carriage and balance in a test. But a horse making the shape on a loose rein is not taking the bit forward which is undesirable.
As I will be judging a number of Western Dressage rides this weekend, I can add that the contact on the curb is clearly mentioned as “light contact.” I looked askance at that directive the first time I read the rules, too. But there is absolutely nothing light about the contact in any of the pictures posted above. I feel the same way about riding in a curb with two hands, but I didn’t write the rules of Western Dressage, so I simply have to judge to them. Also, they ride in a snaffle at the lower levels, so at least that isn’t as big an issue.
As for English dressage riders keeping contact on the curb, I was horrified when the FEI changed the directive to state that the rider should have a light contact on the curb rein. Just no. This is what they do. Change the rules to suit the fashion (and poor riding/training) of the day. Reward huge (unbalanced IMHO) gaits and contact on the curb. It makes me crazy. As I’ve said to many, many students over the years, “the brakes are not in his mouth!”
I do hope that these people pictured were marked down for their contact issues.
It is not representative of the ideal.
I’m having trouble finding a good example of what “8.5 shank, 3.5 port” contact looks like. In every picture the bit is rotated in the mouth to the point the chain is engaged. That’s too much, imo.
Closer. I’m just talking about contact, nothing else.
But then this one comes up. Look at how tight the cavesson is, and look at that bit! It can’t be rotated any further. Yuck!!
2 years ago I did some schooling shows with my young horse, who happens to be a Quarter Horse.
At both shows we got great scores, one a 70% and the other I think was the upper 60s only because I goofed something. The judge that gave me a 70% told me that I should really switch to Western Dressage and that we would be absolute champions. That it would just be an uphill battle to continue with traditional dressage but we would sail through the levels of Western Dressage.
This is pretty disheartening to me. I’m not looking to be a champion or beat anybody. But I was told that my geometry was absolutely spot-on, my position was good, my horse and I looked absolutely harmonious together. But he’s not a big mover.
I don’t want to switch to Western Dressage for multiple reasons. For one I have bad shoulders and I really can’t lift a heavy western saddle. I’m sure there are some lighter versions but I also don’t want to have to pay an arm and a leg for them. I also have Ehler Danlos Syndrome which for me actually makes my muscles tighter. And riding in most Western saddles is uncomfortable to me.
I’m not looking to do the upper levels or even beat everybody. Just want to ride the best to my ability on my cute little horse. It’s pretty sad to be discouraged when you’re told that you’re doing so well and obviously putting the work in.
And I’ll add that I don’t think she was trying to be discouraging. She was very very positive and had so much good things to say about me and my young horse. But I think she was trying to prepare me for the future disappointment.
So I think I’ve just given up showing all together. I’ll just train for my own delight.
We can find imperfect pics all day. The thing is these people aren’t abusing horses a la Parra. Their abuse is one of ignorance - which is still bad - but can be taught away. The big wigs of dressage don’t want to hear chit from anyone and actively engages in gaslighting telling critics they are too dumb to know proper training.
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