Help for a horse who pushes past the distance

[raisethebar]

http://practicalhorsemanmag.com/trai…istance_052409

I have been doing some research on my current issue and thought I might ask to see what others have tried to help with this issue of your horse pulling past the distance. The horse is coming 6 and the jumps are small (average 2’6"). I read this article thinking that I would be getting more information out of it than riding with a strong seat and leg and keep him packaged. Although that information is helpful, it is not detailed enough to really give me some extra tricks on how to do this.

My trainer does see that he pulls me past the distance. I can’t honestly say that my distances are always spot on but I find this happens when it is a deeper distance which makes perfect sense. I try to hold him together and support with leg and then hand to fit it in, but it’s almost like my horse doesn’t “allow” that to happen. Basically I do think he gets offended and just pulls past my hands.

The issue does not happen consistently either. I tend to be a micromanager and I have been learning to let go and allow him to open up to the jump and its been helping find better distances but the quiet distances I still feel like he does this when they aren’t ideal. Sometimes he just falls apart at the base and will do an awkward 3 legged split jump instead of actually trying to keep himself together and make the shorter one work which scares my trainer and annoys me… the answer here is more leg but he decides at the very last minute to fall apart and it’s half impossible to be quick enough. I have thought about maybe a light stick behind the leg when we get deep. The toughest part of the issue is the fact that it isn’t consistent (thankfully) & I do find that it gets worse when he is more “up”. Due to the winter and the fact that it recently got freezing again, I feel like this could be an issue for a couple more weeks but would like to solve it so it doesn’t become a habit consistently.

My other thoughts are putting a canter pole in front of the jumps consistently and more gymnastics. Maybe by putting him right where he needs to be consistently he might figure out how to find the jumps himself and learn to see if he’t not quite there. Thus allowing me to let him do his job. He is adjustable on the flat but we have a small indoor so it is hard continue going forward out of the turns (you keep wanting to get quieter and quieter) and sometimes the distances don’t come up as nicely as you originally planned (isn’t that always the what happens? haha).

The horse isn’t afraid of the jumps and isn’t a feeling of being scared - its more of a feeling of not caring about the riders hands. He also simply does not care about a small jump and so if he can trot it instead of collecting himself to the base (doing the harder option), he will… We have raised the jumps a couple times and he does seem like he pays attention to them more. Produces some amazing soft round knees to nose type of jumps so we know he has it in him. We are waiting to ask more of him until he is older but we do feel like its time for him to take the next step but this problem needs to get fixed first. I would rather not have this issue while canter down to a 3ft oxer…

EDITED to add that I have consistent vet work done on him (chiro) and I know this most likely is entirely fitness related due to his age (not lameness related) and me not helping him out when I need to. It also could be a bit issue and maybe I need to find something else…

Any suggestions to try would be great and are really appreciated. I tried to cover a bunch of my thoughts so hopefully I’m either on the right track or there’s more I’m missing.

[RockinHorse]

I have often seen horses pull past the distance at a jump when the rider is using too much hand and asking the horse to go slower than is comfortable for their fitness/strength. The placing pole you suggested or gymnastics might be a good exercise to make sure you are not falling into this category.

[raisethebar]

Thanks RockinHorse - I do think that this can certainly be it half/most of the time! As I said, I am still learning to let go an allow him to canter UP to the jump and go forward. I tend to go backwards in a small indoor for the sake of “waiting it out” but in the winter, its a fine line of creating impulsion and having him be up fast but not going forward.

Does anyone think that maybe a small raised cavalleti and a collected canter would help get him stronger/more comfortable to take the deeper distance?

I know my micromanaging tends to get less and less as we go outside and he goes back to his normal quiet self so I will be interested to see if this problem solves itself down the road. Either way, I am very interested to educate myself on the issue and have a “meeting of the minds” on here. My trainer is more than capable and tells me to use less hand and more leg, but I’m the type that I need to hear it, see it, do it, read it, etc to really have it sink in deep.

[Victorious]

This may not be helpful…but I too am a micro-manager. I think it frustrates horses, which I get. So one of the things I make myself do to help is literally just start cantering course pace jumps. Keep going! Don’t pull up and obsess over each one, just count your rhythm in your head and randomly jump around. The random part is a big component, don’t just do line diagonal line. Mix it up and do at least 10 or more in a row(obviously if your horse is fit enough, and jumps not super high). What I have found ends up happening is a natural cadence takes over and I stop being so controlling about everything. If my horse pushes past a jump…well…sucks to be you, buddy, but I just keep going and it seems to work out. I feel like the micro-managing is the detail I can work on, horse needs to develop his own sense of self-preservation. Clearly, I am not a trainer, though!!just my 2 cents

[GoodTimes]

When you’re flatting on your own do tons of transitions and lateral work. If you can set up raised cavellettis to trot through do that. Set up a series of canter poles. Set up a 5 stride line with poles and make sure you can do 5, 6, even 7, halt in the middle, trot out, etc. Focus on getting the job done early so that you can be soft with your hands the last couple strides.

If it’s a strength issue then flatwork and poles are your friend. If it’s a you issue then poles are definitely your friend. You should be scared of those hairy 3 legged jumps too. Even the most honest horse can get sick of doing them, and it might only take one leg in the middle of an oxer or flower box to scare him.

[StormyDay]

I also agree this could be a too much hand issue. Some horses get really unhappy if you are too much in their mouth so instead they do this. If you set him up correctly to the distance, and then back off of him ( give a quiet contact, quiet leg) will he continue nicely to the jump, or does he speed up or hesitate? if he continues nicely, this is a ‘you’ problem. If he speeds up or hesitates, this is a ‘him’ problem. If it’s you, you probably are riding him too much. If it’s him, he may need to be immediately brought back to a stop after the jump, and sometimes before it, so he learns to always pay attention to you.

[RockinHorse]

@raisethebar

Does anyone think that maybe a small raised cavalleti and a collected canter would help get him stronger/more comfortable to take the deeper distance?

Since you said you already want to ride a bit backwards, I do not think this would be a good exercise as it may encourage more of that. I would skip the cavalleti when you are trying to do canter work and maybe trot some raised trot poles to help build hind end strength (as well as hills if/when weather in your area permits)…

If you have cavalleti, perhaps your trainer can lunge you in a circle over the calvelleti without reins so you can get more comfortable with letting the horse carry you.

[btswass]

One way to stop micromanaging is to ride (and jump) with the reins in one hand. My trainer had me do this once and I was no longer able to nit pick and my horse had to start figuring things out on his own. It really displayed what he was having issues with. I picked up a heavy hand from a previous horse that was very strong and my trainer had me ride with driving reins to break the habit. If you don’t feel comfortable riding with one hand driving reins might be a good option. I have a feeling this is you. With a young horse you need to do your best to stay out of the way and let them figure things out on their own or you will end up creating a crutch for them that they become dependent on. It can be really hard to just let go and let them figure it out which is why grid work is so good.

[WalnutGroveEq]

My young horse used to do this and it was an evasion to engaging his hind end. He would leave long and land with his nose in the dirt to unload onto his forehand. It was a strength issue for us. I love placing poles and gymnastics for a horse like this. This will force the horse to figure out where his feet should go and allow you let the exercise correct him for any mistakes. The key is to set him up with the proper canter for the gymnastic and not make any huge position changes, particularly jumping ahead. If he leaves long he will have to learn to move his feet or hit a pole. This will prevent him from taking a flyer and unloading on the backside.

I like an exercise like

placing pole+bounce to a 1-2 stride with placing poles+bounce+placing pole

The other thing that was key for me was not to slip the reins to him when he made a mistake. If I make a change like that then the bad distance becomes my fault. If I ride to the base with leg on without changing and he takes a flyer it’s his mistake and he learns to be better and faster with his front end. This is essential to installing that “fifth leg” that will get you out of a bad situation, something I think all horses should learn.

[WalnutGroveEq]

Another thing you can try if the issue really lies in riding backwards to the jump is to try driving reins (holding the reins upside down). This forces you to be softer and follow more.

[raisethebar]

You guys are awesome and totally are picking up exactly how I feel.

50% of the time, the distance I put him in wasn’t the right one (sorry buddy). The other 50%I feel like it is definitely an evasion of engaging his hind end as someone mentioned. Thankfully when I go and ride tonight, I have 2 completely different things to work on… with driving reins!

Keep them coming! I am printing this out so I can highlight and take notes on all this stuff.

[touchstone]

Another simple fix that can help with this problem is rolling out the groundline on the jumps. This may help your horse back himself off a little bit without requiring you to pull. It can be a good trick in combination with other gymnastic exercises, because it sets him up to succeed and have a good, confident jump from the right distance.

[jetsmom]

To teach yourself to learn to flow softly rather than getting to handsy, put a small vertical up and jump in on a circle. The jump should only be avout 2’3" max. Make the circle large enough to canter easily but not so large he can build speed.
Trot into it and land and circle. Do a small half halt to balance if needed, but try to stay in a light half seat and open your shoulders and use your body position to get him to settle. Try to float your reins, stay on the circle, and adjust out or in on the circle to get your distance rather than pulling back to shorten his stride. Keep jumping on the circle until he settles without you pulling on him. Try to get into a rhythm.
Once he figure out he’s not gong to be pulled on, they usually settle.

[RedHorses]

In my experience, most of the time a green horse pushing past the distance is one who feels that he doesn’t have enough power to get over the jump. He may be wrong, but if he feels under powered he is going to push harder and blow that distance​.

I have that problem too, and have a fantastic exercise for this that works whether it is rider caused or horse caused.

​​​​​​Set a cavaletti at X so that it can be jumped across the width of the arena (B-E or E-B). It should be 12-18" high. Small enough that the rider doesn’t need to release and the horse is more lifting his feet higher than he is jumping.

Set two diagonal jumps on the centreline about 6-10’ from the ends of the cavaletti. One to be jumped off the left rein Circle at A, and the other off the right rein Circle at C.

Step one: canter the left rein Circle at A, going over the cavaletti each time. Repetition is key!!! Keep going on the circle until you find and can maintain the canter that will allow your horse to “jump” the cavaletti from a short spot without the abrupt almost stop of a chip, and ALSO allow him to jump from a long spot without taking that launch into orbit flyer. The key is finding the middle of the canter, the powerful push and balance that permits easy adjustment. Too collected and he cannot adjust shorter if needed; too forward and he can’t stretch longer if needed.

Once you can canter the circle three times without noticing his adjustments to clear the cavaletti, proceed to…

Step two: canter the left rein circle at A over the cavaletti to establish and confirm you have the adjustable canter. Once you have it (in the beginning you will probably have to circle several times) on the next circle go over the diagonal instead of the cavaletti. DON’T DROP HIM!! Ride that adjustable canter, every stride of it, right to the jump. Odds are you will drop him the first time. ;). Own it and try again. (See the secret to success below).

Step three: Establish your canter on the circle over the cavaletti, jump the diagonal, continue around the end of the ring and jump the other diagonal. By this point you should have the canter correct on the first time round the circle. The added difficulty in this step is recovering the adjustable canter and maintaining it to the second jump.

It should be a given, but I will type it anyway - Do each step on both reins before going to the next step. Left rein at A, right rein at C.

Secret to Success - you, the rider need to learn the micro aids that will help your horse maintain the correct, adjustable canter while he learns to trust his ability to jump out of that canter. So, each and every stride you get to give him a little squeeze with your leg to push him into your hand At The Moment His Shoulders Are Coming UP That timing is super important. That moment his hind feet are coming forward under his body and your split second squeeze encourages him to reach a little further under himself. And then you release the squeeze (not drop, just release the pressure) and allow him to take the stride. That timing helps him stay on his hind end, helps him keep the powerful push without splatting onto his forehand. I recommend practicing this timing, and the balance of leg pressure to hand pressure that you need. This balance will change, and overall lighten as he gains confidence, but in the beginning may need to be surprisingly strong, but ALWAYS SHORT! If you apply the aids and get no response, you must wait until the next “up” moment to try again. I can’t say it enough, the timing of the aids is critical.

I love this exercise for helping me find the feel of the right canter again when I haven’t jumped in a while. My horse likes it too because it makes me ride forward and let him adjust that step without disrupting the rhythm and flow of the canter. It is also helpful when he has his “Yahoo! Jumps!” attitude on, and reminds him that Mach 3 is not an appropriate speed from which to jump.

I hope this is clear. Ask if anything is confusing, and I apologize for using caps for emphasis (bolding things is a pain on my phone).

[NancyM]

Don’t “micromanage”. Just don’t. Your horse needs to learn to hold his pace without interference or input or pulling on the reins from you. You teach him this in your regular flat work. You set the pace, then leave him to do his job. Don’t do his job for him. Adjust his pace, then leave him to hold the change you have selected. Slower, faster, slower. Always soft with your hands, always letting him do the job he is responsible for. If he changes the pace without input from you, correct him, and leave him to hold it on his own again. Make it easy for yourself by not trying to do his job for him, as well as your own job.

Canter to your jump. Don’t interfere. Don’t LOOK for a distance. The distance will come to you, but you don’t LOOK for it, it makes itself obvious and apparent to you when you have your line, pace and rhythm, but it isn’t something that you actively search for. INSTEAD, concentrate on YOUR job/s, which are pace (which you set then leave him to do it), line (where you are going and planning on going), rhythm, impulsion, carriage, bend, softness. Surely hese things are ENOUGH for you to be thinking about? If you think about these things, and DO these things that you are responsible for adequately, it doesn’t matter what “distance” your horse finds, because he can jump from where he gets to. If he can’t jump from where he gets to, you have failed in one of these responsibilities that are yours (and you and/or your coach can figure out which of these is the culprit), OR he has no jumping talent. Your job are the aforementioned things. Your horse’s job is to look for the jump (get his eye on it), and get himself to it, and over it, and on to the next one, given the input you have given him in your part of the equation. Let him do his job, once he knows it. He learns his job by being given this responsibility. If he truly thinks that he wants to gallop himself into the base of it, let him. Don’t interfere, don’t even try to correct his mistake. Everyone needs to make mistakes every now and again, so that we learn how to NOT make mistakes. Don’t save him from himself. The jumps are small, so mistakes are survivable, but not comfortable for him. The NEXT time, he won’t do this (assuming there is no physical or pain related reason for him doing this). If he is dependant on you pulling on the reins to try to get him to a distance that you think you might see but you are not sure, you won’t progress in your goals for good rounds. If you don’t pull, he can’t tow you past his distances, and will start to understand what HIS job IS. No one ever learns how to not make mistakes by being micromanaged by a helicopter mom.

For an exercise to try… canter round the end of the ring, and point out the jump you are going to for your horse. Then drop any contact with the horse’s mouth, and hold the buckle of the reins only. Sit in the tack quietly and securely, and do nothing. Keep your leg on, so that your horse knows you are still there, still with him, and asking him to go to the jump. Let the horse do his job. If you have done your flat work adequately, this exercise will be easy.

This is why jumping horses is so fun. Because it’s a true partnership, with both involved working together to find success. Both with instant understanding of the other, communicating back and forth and overcoming the problems and questions asked around the course of jumps. When both are involved in decision making, and working together to find success, it’s a thing of beauty.

[fordtraktor]

I didn’t read everything but I don’t have the best eye so I use gymnastics set on a tight distance to teach my horses to hold themselves off the jumps. If the horse is naturally pretty careful this works really well. Then I feel a lot safer with the tight distances I sometimes get – because I know my horse knows how to rock back and jump them.

there is no exercise for making flyers safe so I strongly prefer the deeper distance.

[Sansena]

Agree with much of what’s said here… it’s a bit situational, though.

I agree with letting him find the jumps himself. The goal in training horses is for them to find the distances themselves, eventually. Especially when it’s 3’ -3’3" or so. Ground poles work for this, on take off and landing. Personally, I like to set up trot in- canter out gymnastics as well. But you have to stay out of his way.

In everything I’ve read from your comments it sounds like you have to ride.every.stride. At this level, no you do not. Your job is to get beautiful, energetic flat work with impulsion… set your horse up within his stride, then let the jumps come to you.

Ride a canter circle on the short end of the ring. Establish first cadence, then impulsion. Be sure he’s responsive to your aides laterally AND longitudinally. You can determine this to see how he responds to your request to expand or contract the circle. When you feel as if he’s balanced, responsive and LIGHT, come off your circle from deep in the corner and head toward your fence, keeping your eye past the jump as you do so. Stay light in your tack in a slightly forward seat the just support with your aids.

Here’s where you learn to do nothing: Stop ‘riding to’ the jump. As I said, just support. Now, in your mind’s eye, imagine the jump coming to you… as if you’re watching a movie of it coming closer. Don’t make the jump the goal… make the cadence, balance, and impulsion of the canter your goal. Maintain each and the jump will handle itself.

There shouldn’t be any ‘blowing through your aids’. As a matter of fact, if he does this, you’re teaching him to fight you at the jump-- I’d suggest you drop him. By being so heavy with your aids, you’re teaching him to rely upon them, and hence bicker over your instructions instead of having them actually mean something, and him knowing to listen, each time you apply them.

Drop the horse and let him smack himself. Yeah, yeah… I know, I know. Many are going to squawk over this advice, but so long as you can keep yourself safe (in the tack) while doing this, he’s going to learn that those jumps hurt and he’s not going to get in trouble if he does eat rails a little.

All this advice is best while done under the supervision of someone who knows you, your riding style, and your horse. Of course if he’s one that just blindly gallops toward the jumps, this is not the exercise for you and I’d focus on the gymnastics and let him let the jumps back him off. But if you’re overriding toward the jump, and making the jump the goal of your ride, this ‘drop him’ philosophy will help you.

I agree, overall fitness will improve the situation. Or, if he’s sore, it will exacerbate it as well.

Lastly, don’t jump more than twice a week. You can accomplish much of the same goals by using ground poles. Set up a line and adjust the stride between those poles. Shoot for 4, then 5, then even 6 strides in between those poles. See just how flexible he is, and it will reveal a lot about the problems and limitations your’e facing when you’re actually jumping.

Best of luck.

[raisethebar]

Thank you all for your help! I really think the biggest thing is me just letting go once I established the rhythm and straightness and support with my leg while keeping my hand loose and following as many of you had said. I actually had the chance to jump him around the other day and he was amazing. There was a double flower box set up in our ring and after some awesome flat work and cavalletis which was about 2’9". I cantered down to the bigger jump and my horse immediately settled back and did his job and I didn’t interfere. A couple times over it and a really relaxed eye and arm made the jump come up perfectly and he jumped it incredibly. It really gave me and him a boost of confidence that we needed and gave him something a little bigger to look at. I have shown up to 3’3" as a junior and just now truly getting back into the show ring after college so a lot of these micromanagement ideas is due to my overthinking of things. The horse has an incredible personality and ability and he never rushes the jumps and isn’t at all excited about our jumps.

Time to horse show once the weather gets warmer! Maybe something more exciting will have something to naturally back him off.

We will be doing tons of gymnastics as well. I love those!

[Sansena]

How often are you jumping?

[no.stirrups]

Since your riding may be more at fault than your horse, perhaps spend some time free-jumping. Set a few jumps at varying distances (adding one at a time of course) and watch how he handles himself. Does he choose appropriate distances? Does he clear the jumps in good form? If he doesn’t at first, free jumping will give him a chance to sort himself out learn to pace himself and find the spot. Get comfortable with his pace. When you feel you can trust him to do his job without being micro-managed, get on and trust him! When I trained young horses, I would free jump weekly or so for months before riding over jumps.