Help! Looking for Jill from Gray Fox Farms

[Noalter]

[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;6239091]
Well, it wasn’t, apparently ‘sold’ at the auction. Usually the bank puts a minimum on it, possibly the amount left on the mortgage, or I forget how they determine the minimum, but if the minimum isn’t met, non of the bidders gets it and the bank buys it themselves. The owner is either discouraged or chooses not to be present for the sale, and I would have little doubt that JB wanted to find some way to keep herself occupied as the event took place, so there’s not much nefarious about her being online that particular day. However, if she was posting business as usual, that’s not good.

The other point people seem to forget in saying “leave her alone” is that no one would be posting this stuff online or trying to disclose what is happeneing if the woman would just answer her phone and make herself available, which she isn’t doing. She doesn’t leave people much of a choice but to contact each other about it and be very upset about not having calls returned, etc.

She’s obviously being irresponsible, obviously still trying to collect animals, and obviously not trying to downsize or meet her business obligations. the woman’s a problem, and there is alot of horseflesh tied up in her nefarious practices. I think the comments and concerns and suggestions are all reasonable and justified.[/QUOTE]

Go back and re-read. It was held for sale in an auction Monday. NO one wanted it so it reverts to the lender, period. JB no longer has any rights to inhabit the property and the bank is allowed to, and probably will evict her. It can take 30-45 days. She is on borrowed time at the complete mercy of the lender. BUT she is obviously in denial about anything dealing with the reality of her situation. She was bragging about buying her stallions babies just recently, WOW classic hoarder mentality.

[Laurierace]

She obviously has internet but wonder if part of the no contact problem is a disconnected phone?

[dianehalpin]

I think it’s beyond time to take action via the sheriff if one has a mare on lease to Ms. Burnell before the mares are sold in a dispersal sale, hidden, put down, or given away by her or via legal proceedings, because my experience with her is that no paperwork lodged with her will be found unless it’s to her advantage to find it. Unless a leaser, buyer, or mare owner has been wise enough to keep a paper trail and contracts entered into with this woman, one’s claim may be weak now that this deteriorating situation has entered the legal realm.

My own experience also makes me realize that Ms. Burnell probably has a severe mental/personality disorder. I can’t feel sympathy for someone who has caused as much mental/physical/financial damage to both humans and horses as she has done over time. She has “bought” goods and services with no intention at any time of paying for them. Only the fact that we’ve been able to learn how so many have been harmed by her, a long list of victims including breeders, buyers, sellers, trainers, breed organizations, and suppliers, has the sting been finally taken out of my own victimization.

Almost every other breeder here has discussed foaling difficulties and other breeding oriented problems as they have arisen, but Ms. Burnell foaled out about 25 mares last year, apparently without losing a single one and all apparently having normal births. That just doesn’t ring true and I know she was unable to produce an IgG record when I needed one to insure a young Redwine suckling. That is why I believe that we’ve only been able to discuss her business relationships, rather than the breeding practices, and those business practices may be only the tip of the iceberg with any equine victims being unable to speak unless the buyer of one of her homebreds has spoken up about hidden injuries, as someone did on this board last year.

One can’t excuse a person who deliberately sets out to defraud others, who libels others’ breeding programs and stallions, and who uses the internet to commit fraud. I truly hope that those around Ms. Burnell are able to see that she gets help from the proper mental health professionals and are able to curb her actions in the future.

[Indy-lou]

People who commit crimes against others are called Criminals. The fancy word is “Sociopath”. Treatment usually takes place in court rooms and prisons.
It is tempting to guess at a mental health diagnosis. That’s my area, but it won’t serve any purpose here.
I find all of this very sad, and frankly, it makes me angry too. I agree with Kathy, it’s a black eye on the horse business in general.

[Joanne]

If there are still outstanding bench warrants on her, I am surprised that law enforcement hasn’t acted on them since they are at the farm helping owners retrieve their mares, according to another post.

[Tobias01]

So how many of you who are commenting and judging her have actually had personal business dealings with her? After reading this never ending bash, it seems majority speculation and rumors on a lot of counts and that most of you have no business even commenting.
You talk about HER having mental issues, maybe some of you need to look a bit deeper of why YOU are taking so much time out of your own lives and putting such venomous effort into this thread against her.
I find this thread disturbing at all of the people who have NOT had personal dealings with her that have become manic about finding issues with her to talk about?

And you have the audacity to talk about HER mental status?

So again I ask, who here has actual business dealings with her?

[dianehalpin]

I’d suggest that read all of the posts regarding Gray Fox Farms and Jill Burnell. At least five of us on this particular thread, one of many, all of us honest breeders, have had dreadful dealings with her. What is your relationship to this woman?

[Laurierace]

I hope she has a mental illness. If not, she is an unspeakably evil B!(#* so I will give her the benefit of the doubt.

[3Dogs]

Diane. Agree “Tobias” has NOT actually read most of the posts and given only 16 posts to date, the"alter" question pops to mind!

May ALL the horses be safe…I feel like I am watching a sad episode of “Hoarders” unfold…

[Perfect_Pony]

[edit]

I never accused her of being mentally ill. But I do think it’s pretty clear she is suffering from some mental health issues. Many of us suffer from time to time, we get depressed, have anxiety, panic attacks, or something else when we are dealing with sadness or stress. At this point it seems to have gone so far that she is truly self destructing. It may have all started out with good intentions, but at some point her personality “disorder” seems to have gotten the best of her. Hoarding behavior, lying, cheating, stealing, putting herself and her animals at risk. Now it’s gone so far as paranoid and aggressive behavior towards others. It’s all really, really sad.

Unlike most, I HAVE gone by the farm. It was a mess and there were multiple mares and young horses standing around on dirt/mud lots with no available shade. I personally had a problem with multiple young horses standing in the sun wearing waterproof sheets/blankets in 70 degree whether, I know how hot horses get standing in the sun in a turnout sheet or blanket. There was no available hay or shade. It looked just like it does on google earth. There were no horses in the large field across the road. It’s not a place nor a way I would raise that many foals.

[veetiepony]

If you drive by and see animals in a compromised situation, then why did you not call the aspca? It is, after all, not for the current owner, nor for the previous owners who sold/leased them to that situation, but for the horses themselves.

[Equine_Reproduction]

Girl or boy? Here we go again!

Yup…that time of year again! As of 2011, we were at 58 foals of which <drum roll please> 5 have been fillies and 53 have been colts :P.

Our lovely Hanoverian mare, Persis (Prince Optimus x Gabardine/Grundstein) - http://www.avalon-equine.com/persis.html is in foal to Goldmaker. She is at 336 days today, a decent sized bag, but still just sticky, yellow liquid. So, anyone care to guess? And while you’re at it, come up with a name for me would ya?!

Here’s hoping for a cooler, wetter summer this year! So far, Mother Nature is cooperating!

[mbm]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6239535]
I hope she has a mental illness. If not, she is an unspeakably evil B!(#* so I will give her the benefit of the doubt.[/QUOTE]

ummm… if she is unspeakably evil for being a horse collector, for not paying her bills, etc, then what is a rapist, a serial killer, or worse?

[mbm]

[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6239581]
I never accused her of being mentally ill. But I do think it’s pretty clear she is suffering from some mental health issues. Many of us suffer from time to time, we get depressed, have anxiety, panic attacks, or something else when we are dealing with sadness or stress. At this point it seems to have gone so far that she is truly self destructing. It may have all started out with good intentions, but at some point her personality “disorder” seems to have gotten the best of her. Hoarding behavior, lying, cheating, stealing, putting herself and her animals at risk. Now it’s gone so far as paranoid and aggressive behavior towards others. It’s all really, really sad.

Unlike most, I HAVE gone by the farm. It was a mess and there were multiple mares and young horses standing around on dirt/mud lots with no available shade. I personally had a problem with multiple young horses standing in the sun wearing waterproof sheets/blankets in 70 degree whether, I know how hot horses get standing in the sun in a turnout sheet or blanket. There was no available hay or shade. It looked just like it does on google earth. There were no horses in the large field across the road. It’s not a place nor a way I would raise that many foals.[/QUOTE]

PP, then you had better quick call the aspca on MANY of the people around here that do the same thing…
while i disagree with a lot of what i am hearing re: her management - it isnt different than most of the horses around here…

no horses are out all day with hay in front of them, many are out in rain sheet during the day, many live in dry lots, many dont have shelters…

why even talk about this stuff when it is normal for so many horses?

why not focus on the stuff that is really a problem and out of the ordinary?

as i was driving to the barn today i could of taken several pics of places that i suppose would of horrified most of you!

[Perfect_Pony]

[QUOTE=mbm;6239622]
PP, then you had better quick call the aspca on MANY of the people around here that do the same thing…
while i disagree with a lot of what i am hearing re: her management - it isnt different than most of the horses around here…

no horses are out all day with hay in front of them, many are out in rain sheet during the day, many live in dry lots, many dont have shelters…

why even talk about this stuff when it is normal for so many horses?

why not focus on the stuff that is really a problem and out of the ordinary?

as i was driving to the barn today i could of taken several pics of places that i suppose would of horrified most of you![/QUOTE]

I have a problem with FOALS and young horses and pregnant broodmares being in that condition. I know very well how horses are kept here in CA and I am horrified by much of it. Every horse should have a stall, shelter or tree to shelter themselves from the sun, wind and rain if needed. Horses should also be fed multiple times a day and be fed proper vitamins and minerals if they are not grazing.

Just because lots of people do it doesn’t make it alright. And having broodmares and foals kept like that? Terrible. I owned a horse that suffered the consequences.

[Perfect_Pony]

[QUOTE=veetiepony;6239597]
If you drive by and see animals in a compromised situation, then why did you not call the aspca? It is, after all, not for the current owner, nor for the previous owners who sold/leased them to that situation, but for the horses themselves.[/QUOTE]

Because like many have said, they aren’t technically neglect cases. But that doesn’t make it okay does it?

[Samotis]

My question is, she has so many really nice bred old show mares. Why don’t the people that sold them come pick them up or try to move them to a better place? I am sure there are tons of people out there that would love to breed those mares!

I mean some of those mares are really nice retired show horses or had injuries and should be put into a better situation ASAP so they don’t get hurt or not have shelter or enough to eat.

I took my broodmare back I had on lease a few years back because I didn’t agree with the way she was cared for. I called the lady told her it was unacceptable to me and picked her up! She wasn’t starving to death but I had made it very clear in the contract that she get cared for in the same manner she was cared for at my house. (which obviously could be open to wide interpretation)

To some people it may be ok to keep them in dirt fields and no shelter, but if your goal is to produce a strong athletic foal, then you are stacking the cards against you! Mares need excellent nutrition to produce stong healthy foals!

Please keep us posted if anyone knows if they are moving those horses!

[RoyParker]

[QUOTE=3Dogs;6239539]
Diane. Agree “Tobias” has NOT actually read most of the posts and given only 16 posts to date, the"alter" question pops to mind!

May ALL the horses be safe…I feel like I am watching a sad episode of “Hoarders” unfold…[/QUOTE]

I should have warned “Tobias” that all who do not comply are “alters”

the mods should have taken this thread down by now. All I see are breeders and competitors bashing til the end and it’s just very tacky. For MOST of you who say you are “doing it for the horses” BS. If that was true the thread would have stopped. You’ve spread your word, but like others have said you all appear to like digging that knife in just a little bit deeper.

Sonesta said she posted it on Jill’s FB because it had to be known. She also posted about Jill’s lawsuit with John French. From what I know of him he is an adult capable of posting on Jill’s wall. Who elected her town crier?

I don’t think one person has said that things should not be talked about or brought to light, but the extent that this thread has taken is absurd.

There are no starving horses at Jills farm. To those of you bashing her for not answering her phone. Look in the mirror! that’s why she’s not answering her phone! if in fact that is true, because honestly since it appears NONE of you have horses with her why would she want to talk to you? To hear you continue to berate her?

I understand most of you have no empathy for her situation and that is your choice. Mine is for the entire situation. Horses and Gray Fox and I should not be slammed for feeling that way.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=RoyParker;6239813]
I should have warned “Tobias” that all who do not comply are “alters”

the mods should have taken this thread down by now. All I see are breeders and competitors bashing til the end and it’s just very tacky. For MOST of you who say you are “doing it for the horses” BS. If that was true the thread would have stopped. You’ve spread your word, but like others have said you all appear to like digging that knife in just a little bit deeper.

Sonesta said she posted it on Jill’s FB because it had to be known. She also posted about Jill’s lawsuit with John French. From what I know of him he is an adult capable of posting on Jill’s wall. Who elected her town crier?

I don’t think one person has said that things should not be talked about or brought to light, but the extent that this thread has taken is absurd.

There are no starving horses at Jills farm. To those of you bashing her for not answering her phone. Look in the mirror! that’s why she’s not answering her phone! if in fact that is true, because honestly since it appears NONE of you have horses with her why would she want to talk to you? To hear you continue to berate her?

I understand most of you have no empathy for her situation and that is your choice. Mine is for the entire situation. Horses and Gray Fox and I should not be slammed for feeling that way.[/QUOTE]

I think Sonesta felt it necessary to post on the facebook page because Gray Fox Farm has not, and seems to want to be less than honest about her circumstances. (G.F.F. wouldn’t be likely to let people know that she has been in court and lost, failed to appear in court, has huge financial and check fraud issues, etc, now would she?)
There are people on that page practicaly begging G.F.F. to call them. There has been at least one MO that was alerted to the situation by this thread.

You write that you have empathy for the “entire situation” but it seems as if you are more concerned with G.F.F’s right not to be “bullied” than you are with the people and horses who have been"bullied" by her. :no:

[RoyParker]

:no:

[QUOTE=skydy;6239848]
I think Sonesta felt it necessary to post on the facebook page because Gray Fox Farm has not, and seems to want to be less than honest about her circumstances. (G.F.F. wouldn’t be likely to let people know that she has been in court and lost, failed to appear in court, has huge financial and check fraud issues, etc, now would she?)
There are people on that page practicaly begging G.F.F. to call them. There has been at least one MO that was alerted to the situation by this thread.

You write that you have empathy for the “entire situation” but it seems as if you are more concerned with G.F.F’s right not to be “bullied” than you are with the people and horses who have been"bullied" by her. :no:[/QUOTE]

and the post about John French? do you really think that everyone with a FB page is going to post their financial issues or court issues on their page? Really? I don’t see any posts with people begging her to call them, but might have missed that.

and I mean’t exactly what I said, empathy for the “entire situation”. Does that mean I do not like to see GFF bullied. Of course. I don’t like to see ANYONE bullied.